M120 into 560SL (With Pictures!) - Page 18 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Roncallo · #**256** 05-28-2008, 09:18 PM

The bad fuel in the rail theory has been put to bed. Reinstalled new injector o rings purged fuel and same same. I't was wishful thinking

Then I went out and bought a noid light. I plugged it in and found that the engine actually only runs when the noid light lights then it goes out permanently and the engine stops. I now know why they call it a noid light. When it doesent light you get anoid. Well that confirmed my worst nightmare, the computer is turning off the system.

So for this weekend the plan will be to connect more sensors which may include the ESP system. I just hope the ESP system doesn't need to see hydraulic pressure in the brakes when your foot is on the brake pedal. I do have the brake pedal switch jumped.

If it runs I will be more than happy to do the full ESP installation. It doesn't look too difficult but real estate for components is getting scarce.

iwrock · #**257** 05-28-2008, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roncallo

The bad fuel in the rail theory has been put to bed. Reinstalled new injector o rings purged fuel and same same. I't was wishful thinking

Then I went out and bought a noid light. I plugged it in and found that the engine actually only runs when the noid light lights then it goes out permanently and the engine stops. I now know why they call it a noid light. When it doesent light you get anoid. Well that confirmed my worst nightmare, the computer is turning off the system.

So for this weekend the plan will be to connect more sensors which may include the ESP system. I just hope the ESP system doesn't need to see hydraulic pressure in the brakes when your foot is on the brake pedal. I do have the brake pedal switch jumped.

If it runs I will be more than happy to do the full ESP installation. It doesn't look too difficult but real estate for components is getting scarce.

Even if the ESP system is not in working condition, it should still run, but in Limp Home mode.

Roncallo · #**258** 05-31-2008, 11:11 PM

Well today it still will not remain running. But the situation does get better on a very slow basis. I'm up to a very consistent 2 seconds and now it will start again almost immediately after a previous attempt. Last week you had to wait about 5 min for a restart. It's almost getting to a point where it settles to a steady idol. When it start is tachs up to about 1500, as it starts to settle, it gets down to about 1000 then shuts off. The injection drops out as verified with a noid light so it is a commanded shut down.

I starting to come to the conclusion that there may be nothing wrong with this car. It is probably doing some kind of self calibration or something. The computers have been out of the car for over a year.

My previous assumption was that I did not hook everything needed to the computers. Today I connected the complete 129 instrument cluster. I figured since it talked to the computer it maybe needed to be installed. The instrument cluster is also required to complete the charging system. It was nice to see all the lights come on and then go off, with the exception of ESP and oil pressure. The oil pressure I have rigged to work with the 107 cluster and the ESP light remains on because the ESP system is the only system I don't have connected. I also don't have DAS connected but there is no light for that.

So that leaves me with 2 systems currently not connected ESP and DAS. I don't believe either of these systems is causing this problem. I just cant picture DAS allowing the engine to start at all if the engine was not authorized correctly. I can reconnect DAS but I'm actually more afraid of unauthorizing the engine and getting stuck in the unauthorized mode, than I am of DAS causing this problem. As far as ESP is concerned I can picture MB designing an ESP system that would completely shut the engine down in the event of ESP failure. The car should just go into limp home mode. I do believe that when I go to put the car in gear I will have to bite the bullet and install the ESP system, that will be the next battle.

Hey If anyone has any ideas out there, care to share.

myarmar · #**259** 05-31-2008, 11:59 PM

Do you have 38 pin connector wired? If so you can connect scanner and see what is going on. On my 99 ML430 I can see a lot from ME module including Start Autorization, DAS ECU compatible, etc. All these with Snap On 2500.
Mike

iwrock · #**260** 06-01-2008, 03:06 AM

If the DAS were the problem, the car would sit there and crank, not starting at all. I have had a problem with the DAS, and it will just sit there and crank.

JayRash · #**261** 06-01-2008, 07:25 AM

As far as i know, if the das is removed the car can start, but you need the help of the factory star diagnostic system.

Roncallo · #**262** 06-01-2008, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by myarmar

Do you have 38 pin connector wired? If so you can connect scanner and see what is going on. On my 99 ML430 I can see a lot from ME module including Start Autorization, DAS ECU compatible, etc. All these with Snap On 2500.
Mike

I have the 38 pin connected but I don't have any descent scanner. It's good to know that the Snap on 2500 will do the job.. With that knowledge I might be able to make some deals. The snap on is a whole lot cheaper than the Star Diagnostic System.

Thank You

Roncallo · #**263** 06-01-2008, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iwrock

If the DAS were the problem, the car would sit there and crank, not starting at all. I have had a problem with the DAS, and it will just sit there and crank.

Justin

When you had a problem with DAS did it happen to be on your dads 1996 SL600. That would be a good piece of information to know as this engine came out of a Calafornia, 1996 SL600 same trim probably the next VIN number from your dads.

There are several DAS systems. The first generation just inhibited cranking. The next generation authorized and unauthorized the engine vie infared signal to the mirror or door handles in Europe. And the latest version uses a transponder in the key which I am glad I don't have. I was under the impression that the second version also inhibited cranking but I'm not sure about that as I have my K38 relay bypassed for the moment.

iwrock · #**264** 06-01-2008, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roncallo

Justin

When you had a problem with DAS did it happen to be on your dads 1996 SL600. That would be a good piece of information to know as this engine came out of a Calafornia, 1996 SL600 same trim probably the next VIN number from your dads.

There are several DAS systems. The first generation just inhibited cranking. The next generation authorized and unauthorized the engine vie infared signal to the mirror or door handles in Europe. And the latest version uses a transponder in the key which I am glad I don't have. I was under the impression that the second version also inhibited cranking but I'm not sure about that as I have my K38 relay bypassed for the moment.

It was in the 1996 SL600.

We have the infared system in the car. I sat down in the car, and hit the lock button on the remote. When I put the key in and turned, the alarm panicked, and only let the engine crank... Like there was no fuel pressure.

Roncallo · #**265** 06-01-2008, 12:47 PM

Today I started it this morning and then continued on by connecting all the ESP modules electrically to the car. There was no change. Videos of this mornings and this afternoons starts are on You tube. They should be available in a bit. My next step is to look for someone with a good scanner and brain that makes house calls.

iwrock · #**266** 06-01-2008, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roncallo

Today I started it this morning and then continued on by connecting all the ESP modules electrically to the car. There was no change. Videos of this mornings and this afternoons starts are on You tube. They should be available in a bit. My next step is to look for someone with a good scanner and brain that makes house calls.

Are you using the 560 or 600 fuel pumps?

Roncallo · #**267** 06-01-2008, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iwrock

Are you using the 560 or 600 fuel pumps?

I'm using the SL600 fuel pump. I believe you could get away with using just one of the 560SL pumps. Individually they have about the same performance as the SL600 pump. But I put on the SL600 just to be sure.

iwrock · #**268** 06-01-2008, 01:25 PM

What happens if you hold it at WOT after starting?

Roncallo · #**269** 06-01-2008, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iwrock

What happens if you hold it at WOT after starting?

I haven't tried that but my guess is the computers would never allow the throttle actuators to open that wide without any RPM. The electronic throttles do work, If I happen to get a good run I can rev the engine once and it does respond.

I did find one thing important today. I connected everything electrically except for DAS and nothing changed. Then I removed everything again and nothing changed then I remover the front wheel speed sensors and nothing changed. Then I removed the rear wheel sensors and it would no longer start. I found the rear wheel speed sensors to be critical for starting.

The transmission is the only thing that uses the rear wheel speed sensors but that data may also be available to the engine computers over the CAN buss. I haven't been focusing much on the transmission for the moment as I didn't think it to be significant to starting. So there is a chance I got this problem on the run.

First start this morning
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTEwNCNW8eM

After connecting ESP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDQYaYXl8Bw

So Live · #**270** 06-01-2008, 04:43 PM

"Methods of mass stupidity." hahaha. Excellent John.

Sometimes its those things that work.

I guess its time to try DAS? just because iwrock had that specific problem doesnt mean your is exactly the same. Maybe his was malfunctioning vs not connected at all? I have no idea, i just dont think i would rule it out.

Keep it up.