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  #1  
Old 12-21-2008, 02:57 PM
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Roman Karpovich
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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500E supercharger project

Mercedes 500e 1992

Plans:

Supercharger Vortech T-trim or Paxton (600-1000hp)
Lower compression 8,5
MS standalone system
500x300x76 intercooler
50mm BOV
1000cc injectors
3" aluminum intake pipes






Some swedish words but I hope you will understand what I mean



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  #2  
Old 12-21-2008, 03:18 PM
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That's the way to do it. Do have an early one with the closed deck block? Otherwise the headgasket and then the cylinder wall won't hold.
Should be fun though. I drove a supercharged sl500 m119 once with only 4lbs of boost and it was pretty fast.
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  #3  
Old 12-21-2008, 07:09 PM
88Black560SL
 
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Looking forward to seeing this project take shape. You haven't let us down yet.
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  #4  
Old 12-22-2008, 12:09 AM
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excellent! cant wait to see what you come up with!! My M119 Ignition/airbox mod will be finished early in the new year, then I can start on my M117
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500E supercharger project-dsc01492.jpg  
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  #5  
Old 12-24-2008, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whipplem104 View Post
That's the way to do it. Do have an early one with the closed deck block? Otherwise the headgasket and then the cylinder wall won't hold.
Should be fun though. I drove a supercharged sl500 m119 once with only 4lbs of boost and it was pretty fast.
Whipple, what is the reasonable power limit with an open-deck M119 block? I'm only looking for about 450-500hp, and I'd prefer not to have to replace the block.

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  #6  
Old 12-24-2008, 11:03 AM
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I think that 450-500 would be the limit for the open deck motor. The headgaskets are going to be the problem. They push out because there is no support between the cylinders. The only way to really find out is to do it. You could have the shims made like the honda motors.
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  #7  
Old 12-24-2008, 11:14 AM
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Cool - that's what I thought. On a side note, do you know at what engine serial number the open deck blocks appeared? And if the engine number is the same for .970, .972, and .974? Mine is something like #008050 (.974 version).

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  #8  
Old 12-24-2008, 11:33 AM
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I have no idea. Never something that I chased to find out. I know 90-92 maybe 93 and some 94 engines. I do not know if they changed the engine number though.
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  #9  
Old 12-24-2008, 12:46 PM
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Wonderful.

I believe that's how Albrex (sp?) and Koenig placed it.

IMHO, changing out the LH to an aftermarket EFM is the only way to do it RIGHT.

:-) neil
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  #10  
Old 12-24-2008, 04:15 PM
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Correct. Albrex put it in that same position. Koenig's kit appears very, very similar... just with a slightly different airbox. Interestingly, both were developed for the 119.96x with KE mechanical injection, so both have that weird divot at the center/rear of the airbox, for the .96x's mechanical injection manifold.

Replacing the LH injection with aftermarket is definitely a better option, but the amount of R&D time (and cost) involved with tuning such a system is enormous. For an engine with under 500hp, my unprofessional opinion is that it's not worth the cost... I'd rather leave the LH setup intact, pop in the appropriate EPROM chip, and be done with it. I doubt a full aftermarket ECM would extract much more than an additional 10% compared to LH, and if so, it's probably not worth the cost.

Now, beyond 600hp, I doubt the LH system has enough scalability to handle the power, so installing a full aftermarket system is probably the only way to do it at all. I believe you'll lose at least ASR with this method, and possibly ABS as well. On a street car, I'd want to retain both.





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  #11  
Old 12-24-2008, 10:37 PM
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Roman Karpovich
 
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Wow nice! never seen those supercharger kits before

About SA Standalobe system is the first thing we allways do on every car we tune. We allways start with SA. I wanna control 100% inj+ing every time I tune any car and its worth each $

I can run any low ohm injectors I want, make a perfect tunin range, control spiking with knocksystem so I can retard ingition with several different step and 100 other good funktions.
So we allways work only with SA, Megasquirt, Nira, VEMS, Aoutronic, haltech, AEM....

With SA I can keep all stock funktions if I want so it is no problem at all.

The target of this project is minimum 700Hp and SA is absuluitly needed

I wanna use serarate strap with teeth and thats why I need to remove the stock fun and run electric fun controling from MS and machine a new crankwheel with extrawheel with teeth...

Right now I am looking after the supercharger, most wanted wortech T-trim
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  #12  
Old 12-24-2008, 10:55 PM
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Please keep details on the stand-alone EFI system. I am really interested in deleting the weak links on the M119 such as the OE throttle body (ETA) and the wiring harness and deleting all the ignition modules. Of course I'm interested in more power, but IMO (in my opinion) you gotta do the EFI first, then supercharger.
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  #13  
Old 12-25-2008, 01:30 PM
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Roman et al.,

Rather than going with lower-compression pistons, you may want to consider "high-definition" auxiliary injection (aka, HD AI), either water or methanol.

I will be doing "water" AI on my 1.3-liter rotary for knock and cooling control for about 350 RWHP (approx. 437HP crank) in a 2800-lb. car.

If you chose "methanol" be prepared for an intake manifold temperature so cold you don't want to touch it.

The turbo Buick guys have been doing AI for years, and you don't need a very large intercooler (87 pages containing 3461 threads):

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/alcohol-nitrous-propane-tech/?daysprune=-1


HD AI allows millisecond control, and offers safe-guards like retarding when out of methanol/water, or a loss of signal.

Check it out here and scroll down to this phrase:

< I bring good news… 21st century AI is now available >
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=806104

With a twin-turbo on a 1.3-liter he's making 498 rwhp (about 622 crank HP) @ 20-psi on 93-octane PUMP gasoline for the last 4-years!

He tore-it down, measured negligible wear, and the insides were super-clean due to the constant "steam cleaning" effect of AI.

Resources

HD-AI vendors:

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/index.html
http://www.coolingmist.com/
http://www.fjoracing.com/index.php

AI vendors
http://www.alcohol-injection.com/
http://www.alkycontrol.com/
http://www.snowperformance.net/

AI Forum links
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/phpBB2/
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/alc...-propane-tech/

:-) neil

Last edited by ke6dcj; 12-25-2008 at 03:30 PM.
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  #14  
Old 12-26-2008, 08:18 AM
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Hi Roman, a little off topic, but.... I don't suppose you have more pictures of the car and how the Wald kit fits to the 500e body? The rear bumper looks okay, but any chance you have a closer look at the front bumper where it meets the fender.
Regards,
Joe
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  #15  
Old 12-28-2008, 07:48 AM
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Why did you go for such a low compression for a centrifugal compressor?
Don't you think you would be better of with 1:9 compression or something?
Or what is the idea behind that?

Should be a amazing car when it is all done
Keep up the good work.
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