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  #1  
Old 10-22-2001, 01:12 PM
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Location: Matthews, NC, USA
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500E brake upgrade

I have sent private messages to Mark & RM (to stay under 1000 characters, it was pretty cryptic), but thought I would seek your input as well.
I need new brakes, reviewed several threads, need advice.
Here are the facts as I understand them from Phil.

600SL (and post #930495 500E's)

Front pads #002420152005M
Front disc #129 421 17 12 left,
#129 421 18 12 right
Front calipers #001 420 00 83 left, (not aluminum)
#001 420 01 83 right (not aluminum)

My Early 500E NB786959 (pre 930495)

Front pads #0024201520 (same pad as late 500E & 600SL)
Front disc #124 421 26 12 left,
#124 421 26 12 right
Front calipers #001 420 79 83 left, (aluminum)
#001 420 80 83 right (aluminum)

what is the difference in rotors
diameter ?
thickness ?

what is the difference in calipers?
2 vs. 4 piston?
clamping force?
aluminum vs. non aluminum? (weight difference?)
worth the price? ($470 vs. $1070)

Overall breaking difference?

Mintex Pads (less dust?)
(any sacrifices?)

How to verify my early 500E has smaller brakes.

What cost effective brake upgrades can I consider, or since this is strickly a street car, should I just keep the 500E stock brakes.

Thanks
Dwight
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  #2  
Old 10-22-2001, 05:32 PM
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The 600SL rotors are directonally vented and slighly larger in diameter. However, I don't believe the pad is much larger in surface area than the 500E pad.

The rotors & calipers are significantly more expensive.

If you're having fade problems, you need to bring cool air to the rotors/hubs. Invest in getting brake ducts from the front spoiler to the rotors/hubs.

If you're having warping problems, I believe Dean or Michael is having luck with cryogenically-treated rotors. I can't remember which pad (Carbo-Tech, PAGID, etc.) they're having good street performance with. If you're brake-lines are more than 10-years old, replace them. If you go the stainless-steel braided route, be sure to get ones with a plastic sleeve to keep dirt from getting in the braid and causing premature failure.

Most of all, if you want to stop in shorter distance, get wider and stickier tires.

:-) neil
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  #3  
Old 10-23-2001, 02:11 AM
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I believe the aluminum calipers had problems, you might want to stick with the iron calipers that came on the later model cars.
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  #4  
Old 10-23-2001, 02:24 AM
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The early 500E calipers were aluminum Brembos, and they were noisy.

MB changed them to iron calipers from teh 500SL.

In 1994, MB changed them again to 600SL calipers to reduce fade.

:-) neil
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  #5  
Old 10-23-2001, 10:49 AM
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Dwight:
M-B offered a warranty upgrade to pre-94 500E's that were experiencing excessive brake fade. The upgrade was to fit 600SL front brakes, as were incorporated on the 94 E500. I'm sure you're aware that others have retro-fitted this upgrade with success after searching the archives.

You can find out whether you have the aluminum (pre-94) or iron brake calipers with a magnet

Michael Curcio dropped me a note on another thread to advise that his experience with cryo-treated front discs was not good and he has reverted to stock discs and upgraded pads.

Good luck!
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  #6  
Old 10-23-2001, 12:02 PM
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Actually, Dean, the cryo-treated OE rotors, in early 500E 300mm diameter (later ones were 320 mm) worked fabulously with EBC Red Stuff pads on the track. I am now running the very same rotors with street pads, no problem.

As to brake pad differences between the 500E and E500/SL600, the pad is identical in size and the pad material is of the exact same composition. However, the later pads have less material and different shims, I presume to make them even quieter. I've run both pads, and the later ones are quieter...no squeks or squeals. But if you look on the metal backing plate on the pad material side, they are all the same JURID compound (from the dealer)

Just to clear this up...
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1995 E500 street car
1986 Porsche 944 Turbo S track car
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  #7  
Old 10-23-2001, 12:20 PM
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Dwight did send me a private message regarding the brakes. Unfortunately I never pushed through with the upgrade. I found the current brakes to be more than adequate for the vehicle (you find that out when you get in a situation where you need to stop NOW!) I found the stock brakes on my car to be quite progressive...in the sense that the harder you step on it, the stronger it gets, but is a sort of geometric instead of linear manner.

In my reply to him (via email) I offered that the most cost effective upgrade for him, in my opinion, would be to replace his aluminum calipers with the steel ones (cheaper than the 600 SL calipers), assuming they would work without having to change anything else, and work on brake cooling via ducts and hoses instead.

I'm in the process of putting in some brake ducts and hoses for good measure myself.

Does this make sense to you guys?
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93 500E, 43k mi, Pics of upgrade parts
Evo II Wheels on Dunlop FM901 235/45x17s
94 Facelift
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RennTech ASR Defeat
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  #8  
Old 10-23-2001, 05:43 PM
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check out this website for 500E brake upgrade: www.ultimategarage.com/bigbrake1.html
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'92 500E
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  #9  
Old 10-23-2001, 06:13 PM
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Unhappy Oops!

Michael/Dwight

Sorry for the misinformation...
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"Lead, follow, or better yet, get out of the way!"E500 owners motto
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  #10  
Old 10-25-2001, 11:15 AM
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Just wanted to thank everyone for their replies. This has got to be the greatest bunch of guys, ever.

If you ever pass through the Carolinas, look me up.
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  #11  
Old 10-26-2001, 01:44 AM
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500E brakes continued

Hey guys. Whats working for me is a set of brembo crossed drilled for everyday driving. With Factroy pads and flushed out my entire brake system 2 times. Its stops on a dime. I wish I had some OEM brembo calipers that Porsche install on the pre 94 cars. dwight sorry I didnt get back to you sooner. I didnt know how to retireve that private messege you sent me.
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  #12  
Old 10-26-2001, 03:32 AM
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Guido,

Where'd you get the brembo rotors? How much? Would you happen to have the part number?

Thanks!
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Rainmaker
93 500E, 43k mi, Pics of upgrade parts
Evo II Wheels on Dunlop FM901 235/45x17s
94 Facelift
RennTech CF Airbox
RennTech ASR Defeat
RennTech Chip
1st Gear Start
97 Range Rover 4.6 HSE Vitesse, Yellow, "Tonka" (sold)

Last edited by rainmaker; 10-27-2001 at 12:14 AM.
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  #13  
Old 10-26-2001, 06:29 PM
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Location: New Milford, Ct
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My 500E brake upgrade is 90% complete and will be installed within a month. Here's what I have done:

Fronts, I bought Alan Tackmans old Alcon calipers (huge four piston jobs), and they are being rebuilt right know. I had two 330 mm Alcon rotors special ordered from the UK. They are 30mm wide, slotted and cryo treated. I am using a Ferodo pad (Alcon recommended). I have some Porterfield ducting and Naca ducts that I am installing for cooling purposes.

The rears are new 600SL calipers with 300mm MB rotors, which have been cryotreated. I am using a MB rear pad.

Stainless brake lines obviously.

Mmm, now what colour to paint the calipers?


David Hendy
'92 500E 68k miles
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  #14  
Old 10-26-2001, 07:11 PM
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BRG-The Queen requires it

I think green would look cool, be unique, and keeping with the fact that I think your car looks a little green anyway...

Did you get those guys in the Bershires to rebuild the calipers?
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1995 E500 street car
1986 Porsche 944 Turbo S track car
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  #15  
Old 10-26-2001, 08:08 PM
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FWIW- Brabus in Newport Beach, California, also use the BIG ALCON's.

You might want to check with them on replacement rotors.

Ask for Peter.

:-) neil
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