Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help

Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Mercedes-Benz Performance Paddock

LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-01-2010, 04:09 PM
kynsi's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Finland
Posts: 185
Looks like there is little round shape for oil sguirt.
That makes me think situation when piston is its bottom position. Bottom of the piston pin is in same position as bottom of cylinder pipe. When engine is cold is possible that piston makes swing movements. Movement depends of clereances. Clereances depends of bore size and heat calculating.
Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2010, 12:28 PM
Brabus 3.6-24's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Europe
Posts: 90
Compresion or piston speed ?

I think you all very right, that using the diesel crank is good compared to the lower compresion you run.

But what about crank/piston speed? this is a hole lot more than the diesel runs with.

And when you think about it, this AMG E36 and the Brabus 3.6-24 engines are both more a stroker engine than a high speed BMW setup

So running 7000 rpms or 6500 on a crank that has a realy long stroke will resault in a very high piston speed in the cylinder compared with the long stroke.

an engine that is designed or tuned to be a stroker, should´t run with that high rpm,s or am I wrong ?

The oil cut,s in the pistons is very small and the oil sprayers is located right on the lower edge on the cylinder walls, så the pistons is only coming out maybee 2 to 5 mm at the most, othervice the pistons would chop of the oil sprayers as they are located inside the cylinder circle at the bottom.
Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2010, 05:02 PM
Brabus 3.6-24's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Europe
Posts: 90
Here some pics of the pistons and rods

These was made of JE pistons in USA,

Please telle me what you think of this setup and if it looks right ?

JE pistons could not make a piston that fitted to the org. rods only if you used spacers, so I went the whole way and got some new rods as well.
They suplied the bearing as well so I know they will fit right on.

Now I will go ahead and make the engine in 1 piece again
I will measure as many things that I can on the way.

But is there anything that I should be carefull with or any advice you might have please go ahead and write it here
Attached Thumbnails
BRABUS M104 3.6-24 pistons rings failure-pistons-rods.jpg   BRABUS M104 3.6-24 pistons rings failure-pistons-rods-2.jpg   BRABUS M104 3.6-24 pistons rings failure-pistons-rods-3.jpg  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2010, 07:05 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
Posts: 516
The S54 and other 3.2L Bmw M50 based engines have a 91mm stroke. With the M104 at 92.4 I don't see how it's that much more of a stroker motor?

What's the length on your rods and Compression height?
1993 190E 2.6 Sportline
Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2010, 01:28 AM
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 194
Hey,I'll reply to your PM here!.

Those pistons are identical to the ones i used in mine,the skirts are very short so loading and wear will be increased compared to your originals.

Here you can see the wear on the bottom of the skirt,maybe wall clearance was excessive.the wear is through the machining marks.

This is after 2000k's,vs the original mahle pistons with 100000k's...

JE CAN use that piston and mill it out to a ~22mm for your stock rods!.

Im not sure why my JE pistons never worked i have a lot of theories and no hard evidence to back them up,Goodluck and i hope you dont end up consuming oil like i did.

Turbo 202 history:
Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2010, 01:59 AM
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: North America
Posts: 527
Are your piston bores iron or aluminum?
Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2010, 02:21 AM
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
Posts: 516
1993 190E 2.6 Sportline
Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2010, 12:18 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 436
I don't think the AMG's would be less reliable- they use a smaller bore which makes headgasket seating better.
The weakness of the 350 sdl engine appears to be connecting rods primarly. In europe running higher cetance fuel, they didn't experience the same failure rate- so it maybe the rot-gut 42 cetane.
Connecting rod length to stroke in the OM603.971 is quite acceptable at 1.75. If it was less than 1.65 or so, then you could point to the stroke being too long for the block (possibly).

Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2010, 07:25 PM
Brabus 3.6-24's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Europe
Posts: 90
Here are some information that is known for sure.

The BRABUS 3.6 engines both 12 Valve and 24 Valves uses the same BRABUS special made crank shaft with a stroke of 90mm. it is a forged crank.

It was the AMG´s that used the Diesel crank with the stroke of 92.4mm
and a bit lower bore size at 91mm.

The problem with the brabus is not the bore size it self, it is the head gasket (that only BRABUS makes at 92mm bore size) that is only made on the base of the "old" and first generation headgasket, you know the ones without the reinforcement to the olil passage and in the end that goes up to the timing chain chamber.

This old style/1 gen. head gasket is therefore prone to wear out quick and will begin to let oil out either on the back of the engine or at the front where the chain cover meets the head and bottom end.

The best way to get around this problem is to forget all about the brabus head gasket witch by the way cost insanely 1000 $ or 550£ or 650 Euro´s.

That is insane because not only are the brabus headgasket made on the faulty 1 gen. headgasket that are prone to have oil leaks within short time, it is also "just" the same head gasket as a normal one, just with bigger bore size and bigger water channels.

Instead you go and by the AMG headgasket witch cost ½ of the brabus one and also are being made on the 2 gen. ead gasket that comes with the reinforcements.
The only problem is that this headgasket are not awailable in bore size of 92mm. it is only awailable in 91.5mm.
The problem with this is that the smaller diameter means that you have more of the headgasket sticking in the combustion chamber.
But that is not to much you think only 0,5mm yes and the pistons will not go out of the cylinder so there are no problem with the space in this matter.
The real problem with this headgasket being a bit smaller is that you will get a smaller combustion chamber witch will make your compresion go up.
And then 0,5mm is quite a lot in fact it would raise the compresion that much, that all your 2nd. pistion rings will be so stressed that they will brake JUST WAHT HAPPEND TO MY ENGINE....

Because the idiot before me had a headgasket changed and the morron doing this in the work shop just used this AMG head gasket and thoght, hey what the hell is the big difference

But the difference was just the result that I saw when I toke the engine apart, because the headgasket that I found was an AMG head gasket and not the brabus headgasket.

Before when the guy that own the car before me drove it before he got the headgasket done, he had the original brabus headgasket and no oli leaks up past the piston due to broken 2nd rings that has the job to take down the oil again.

Then he went and got the head gasket changed becasue the org. brabus gasket was beginning to leak oil to the front chamber side.
Then the dealer that sold him the car (non Mercedes dealer) went and did the worst job he could have done, being cheap and replaced it with the 91,5mm AMG gasket. after this, the compresion was raised becasue f this new smaller gasket, and it began to brake his 2nd. piston rings, and making a new much worse oli leaking problem.

The car began to have a heavy oil usage, around 3-5 litter/1000 Km. thats alot.

Then the former owner deliveret the car back on the warrenty and got his money back and then I came past and bought the car not knowing anything of this problem but I was told that the car might just needed new valve oil seal that was a quick job, so I went and boght the car...

The case went to trail and I got 2/3 back of the money I paid for the car a lot money I can tell, that´s why I have the gold to rebuilt the engine so if I just fitted new rings on the pistons, and used the AMG head gasket, then they would brake insendtly again.
So I just went all the way and I hope I don´t have to camm JE pistons to clame there Pistons are worn out after only 2000 Km... there has clearly been a problem there becasue that´s not normal and these pistons will last much longer nomaly.

I got the rods as well and hope this will make a difference in power as told by JE pistons, he told me that this solution was a lot nicer than going with the spacer and the org. rods. and I could might get a bit more power becasue of the mutch lighter pistons and rods.

So the big roumer that brabus eat headgaskets as hell is not true compred to the engine modification, it is just because they made the special 92mm head gasket on the old 1 gen. head gakset versions. and of cause the headgasket is under a bit higher strees with the brbaus modification so you might get the faulty leaking oil problems a lot sooner.

But I can tell that with the AMG gasket I saw never an leakage or anything else, you only have to remember to lower the compresion or get new rings that can take the stress before you go with the AMG gasket.
Reply With Quote


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:38 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page