V8 Crossfire Conversion Runs! - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

LantanaML320 · #1 11-11-2009, 11:27 PM

I finally got to the point where I learned all I could and still didn't have all the answers. So the only way to find out if this would work was to just do it. The mechanical part of the swap went as planned and was actually very easy with no issues. We then used an unlocked ECU from the donar car along with the STAR Diagnostic system in Developer Mode to code the ECU. We were able to code the ECU just as if it was OEM in the car. We even got it to store the Chrysler VIN number. I don't have any immobilization issues and the ECU leaned the Immo settings from the car. I have no check engine light. We do have one issue to sort out and that is the car won't crank from the key. To start the engine we turn the key on and then jump the starter. Once started everything works fine. We have triple checked all the wiring and now believe the ECU may be at fault. The ECU came from a car that was totaled in the rear and caught fire. The start function that are run by the ECU don't seem to be working. Today Beckmann Technologies unlocked another ECU and we are hoping the replacement ECU solves the issues. Here are some pictures. Everything involved here could be applied to other late model engine swaps so engine swaping is still possible. One person who helped me just finished putting a 55K engine in a CLK240 and his car runs perfect like OEM.

Roncallo · #2 11-13-2009, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LantanaML320

I finally got to the point where I learned all I could and still didn't have all the answers. So the only way to find out if this would work was to just do it. The mechanical part of the swap went as planned and was actually very easy with no issues. We then used an unlocked ECU from the donar car along with the STAR Diagnostic system in Developer Mode to code the ECU. We were able to code the ECU just as if it was OEM in the car. We even got it to store the Chrysler VIN number. I don't have any immobilization issues and the ECU leaned the Immo settings from the car. I have no check engine light. We do have one issue to sort out and that is the car won't crank from the key. To start the engine we turn the key on and then jump the starter. Once started everything works fine. We have triple checked all the wiring and now believe the ECU may be at fault. The ECU came from a car that was totaled in the rear and caught fire. The start function that are run by the ECU don't seem to be working. Today Beckmann Technologies unlocked another ECU and we are hoping the replacement ECU solves the issues. Here are some pictures. Everything involved here could be applied to other late model engine swaps so engine swaping is still possible. One person who helped me just finished putting a 55K engine in a CLK240 and his car runs perfect like OEM.

Excellent great job

LantanaML320 · #3 11-13-2009, 09:05 AM

Just before the replacement ECU was to be sent back to me, Beckmann did some more checking of the wiring between the SLK/Crossfire and the ECU we are trying to use. The CL500 gets its Park verification signal through the CAN and the SLK/Crossfire gets it through a standard circut. Ths would definitely keep the car from cranking on the key. We think this may have something to do with when MB changed to the new infrared key and I have the switchblade type. We then had to think about what MB's used the '98+ 113 V8 and the older key and thought about the ML430. An unlocked early ML430 was overnighted yesterday and wil will see if this helps the cranking issue. Using the STAR DAS initial set up we will be able to transfer all the coding we have done to the new ML ECU whcih includes the fuel maps for the 500 engine. As mentioned earlier the car runs and drives with no fault codes so we are very close to having this 100% right. While my car is Chrysler, it is a Chyrsler in VIN number only. The approach we took opens doors for engine swaps where getting around the eclectronics was the only real problem. My car is at Krause's Automotive in Lewisville which is near my home in the Dallas suburbs. I am headed there soon to meet the ECU and hopefully be tearing up the roads this afternoon. This whole job would have been much easier if Brabus would have just told me how they did it with their STARTECH 6.1L V8 Crossfire! Instead they just offered to do the job for me for only $41,000. I am just about done and haven't spent quite spend $4,000. I hope to get this number down to $3,000 after selling my perfectly good 320 V6 engine.

LantanaML320 · #4 11-13-2009, 06:42 PM

I went for the first test drive today and WOW what a difference! The torque is amazing. The car ran very well with no issues. Temps were good also so my dual 12" electric fans conversion is working well. I turned the traction control off and jumped on it from a slow roll and the rear stepped out to the left as it planted in the seat. My first stop was to a gas station see attached. I didn't have the whole engine cover on at the time or the snorkels.

Roncallo · #5 11-13-2009, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LantanaML320

Just before the replacement ECU was to be sent back to me, Beckmann did some more checking of the wiring between the SLK/Crossfire and the ECU we are trying to use. The CL500 gets its Park verification signal through the CAN and the SLK/Crossfire gets it through a standard circut. Ths would definitely keep the car from cranking on the key. We think this may have something to do with when MB changed to the new infrared key and I have the switchblade type. We then had to think about what MB's used the '98+ 113 V8 and the older key and thought about the ML430. An unlocked early ML430 was overnighted yesterday and wil will see if this helps the cranking issue. Using the STAR DAS initial set up we will be able to transfer all the coding we have done to the new ML ECU whcih includes the fuel maps for the 500 engine. As mentioned earlier the car runs and drives with no fault codes so we are very close to having this 100% right. While my car is Chrysler, it is a Chyrsler in VIN number only. The approach we took opens doors for engine swaps where getting around the eclectronics was the only real problem. My car is at Krause's Automotive in Lewisville which is near my home in the Dallas suburbs. I am headed there soon to meet the ECU and hopefully be tearing up the roads this afternoon. This whole job would have been much easier if Brabus would have just told me how they did it with their STARTECH 6.1L V8 Crossfire! Instead they just offered to do the job for me for only $41,000. I am just about done and haven't spent quite spend $4,000. I hope to get this number down to $3,000 after selling my perfectly good 320 V6 engine.

Congratulations on a job well done. I am well aware of how this reverse engineering goes. Look at post #232 to see where I start the adventures of my first engine start attempt.

M120 into 560SL (With Pictures!)

LantanaML320 · #6 11-14-2009, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roncallo

Congratulations on a job well done. I am well aware of how this reverse engineering goes. Look at post #232 to see where I start the adventures of my first engine start attempt.

M120 into 560SL (With Pictures!)

Just finished reading the tread. I felt your pain and joy all the way through the read. Great job getting it going. I wish I had been following this thread last year as I have a pretty good understanding of the electronics and what you were up against. Late model engine swaps are very challenging especially with Mercedes electronics and imobolization systems.

Johnhef · #7 11-14-2009, 05:58 PM

Wow too cool. So who is this place that can open up modules? I had wild ideas before about using a 55K engine but I want to put it in a C126

LantanaML320 · #8 11-14-2009, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnhef

Wow too cool. So who is this place that can open up modules? I had wild ideas before about using a 55K engine but I want to put it in a C126

Here is the website for Beckman Technologies:

http://www.beckmanntechnologies.com/

Most independant shops that service Mercedes knows them. They can unlock ECU's which makes used ECU's usable when one needs to be replaced. But using developer mode in the STAR DAS system allows you to recode an ECU to a differenct car and also code all the other modules to work with the ECU which is the key to my swap. Be warned though as Developer mode is in German only.

Roncallo · #9 11-14-2009, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnhef

Wow too cool. So who is this place that can open up modules? I had wild ideas before about using a 55K engine but I want to put it in a C126

John

I had discussed with Beckmann about reprogramming my EGS module to accept the 2:46 ratio for the 722.6. The guy told me it could probably be done but would essentially become a research project that he didn't want to get involved with. I kind of got the feeling that if you offered him enough cash maybe. Rumers that SDS could reprogram a EGS gear ratio did not pan out for me. For the moment, I'm locked in to a 2:65 rear using the stock computers.

A 55K in a C126 would be very cool, You know I've been thinking about it for the 107. I have come to the conclusion that there are two approaches to these engine swaps. All or nothing. You either go all MB from the same car, engine trans computers and wire harnesses. Or go with all aftermarket computers.

Roncallo · #10 11-14-2009, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LantanaML320

Just finished reading the tread. I felt your pain and joy all the way through the read. Great job getting it going. I wish I had been following this thread last year as I have a pretty good understanding of the electronics and what you were up against. Late model engine swaps are very challenging especially with Mercedes electronics and imobolization systems.

I was very luck that I didn't have the transponder system. If I did, I probably would have had to do something crude like stuff the SL600 ignition switch and key under the dash and activate the circuit with the 560SL ignition switch through relays.

How about some videos.

KarTek · #11 11-16-2009, 09:14 AM

Great job on this project! I'm sure the wiring was a nightmare...

Beckmann is only about 5 miles from here. I'd heard of them but wasn't really aware of what they could do beyond rebuilding ECU's.

LantanaML320 · #12 11-16-2009, 10:12 AM

Beckman unlocked my ECU and then he used remote access so that he could program the ECU from his office in Durham NC. We are still chasing one last problem but have learned a lot about what is possible and was in not. My V8 conversion is the third and first outside of Germany. The first one was done by Brabus and they aren't talking but I believe I followed their approach. The other on which also is in Germany involved taking all the modules plus the trans and rear end from a CLK55. the reason I believe I followed the Brabus route is that to start my car, I turn the key on and then have to jump the starter. The Brabus car also does not crank from the key and has a starter button. The other problem with the Brabus car and mine is that it takes some cranking before it starts. I am guessing that because we are not going through the ECU to crank, the cam and crank sensor are having to learn their sync with each start. One think we learned is that the Corssfire/SLK's use the older switchblade key and just about every Mercedes with the 113 three valve V8 uses the newer infared key and on these cars the start signal goes through the CAN while the start signal on the Crossfire goes through a regular circut. The only vehicle that used the 113 engine with the older key is the ML 163 chassis's. We are going to try an ECU from a ML430 as it looks like it has the same ECU pinout and the SLK/Crossfire.

We were able to change the rear gear ratio in the ECU as well as program the Crossfire tire size of 225 40 18 front and 255 35 19 rear and transmission, and associate all the other modules to the ECU as well as program in the Chrysler VIN number into the MB ECU. This was mostly done in developer mode using varient coding in German. A person could do this themselves it they had one of the cloned Star DAS system available on Ebay and other places.

From what I have seen this approach works well if you want to put something like a 55 kompressor or SLR engine in a chassis that at least used the same family of ECU. the 112 V6's and 113 V8 use the Bosch ME 2.8 family of ECU's. For swaping modern engines into older cars, I think it would be easier to swap the evarything or go with a stand alone ECU to run the engine. I not sure about the older cars but these newer ones have very complicated immobilization systems.

I will let you all know how the ML ECU works out. It would be nice if we are able to take this swap past what Brabus was able to acheive.

Roncallo · #13 11-16-2009, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LantanaML320

We were able to change the rear gear ratio in the ECU as well as program the Crossfire tire size of 225 40 18 front and 255 35 19 rear and transmission, and associate all the other modules to the ECU as well as program in the Chrysler VIN number into the MB ECU. This was mostly done in developer mode using varient coding in German. A person could do this themselves it they had one of the cloned Star DAS system available on Ebay and other places.

I would be very interested in how you re-programed the gear ratios. What transmission are you using. On my 96 SL600 power train the gear ratio is stored in the transmission EGC module. I couldn't come up with any way to re-program it. Are your gear ratios stored in the engine ECU or in the trans EGC unit.

LantanaML320 · #14 11-16-2009, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roncallo

I would be very interested in how you re-programed the gear ratios. What transmission are you using. On my 96 SL600 power train the gear ratio is stored in the transmission EGC module. I couldn't come up with any way to re-program it. Are your gear ratios stored in the engine ECU or in the trans EGC unit.

I can't tell you for sure but will try to find out. Beckmann had remote control of the lap top and everything was sipping by in German. I did see actual values in English when it was all done and sure enough it said my engine was E50 which is the code for the 500 113 engine, and the rear axle was 3.27 which is the Crossfire rear end. With a cloned version of STAR DAS and in developer mode and a German friend or dictionary you might be able to reprogram this yourself. the basic approach I took was to take an unlocked ECU and re-associate it with the car and all its various modules. It is kind of like building a prototype car using the same functionality they have in the factory. This website has a good page all about developer mode and sells the key gen to raise the DAS to system to developer mode. They also sell the software cables and complete systems. I got my system off of Ebay. http://www.jcrecordings.com/

ke6dcj · #15 11-20-2009, 07:25 PM

Way cool !