I was reading about the 400E vs the E430.

The 400E has a 2.24 differential and the E430 has a 2.82, the same as the earlier 500E/E500.

0-60 times for the 400E were 7 seconds, and 6.2 seconds for the E430.

Do you think that MB didn't put a 2.24 in the 400E/E420 because performance would have been very close to its bigger brother?

And, by the time the 500E/E500 was retired, the E430 could take the 500E's place as MB's midsized performance machine.

Did MB put a 2.82 in any other 124 besides the 500E/E500?

I'm ready to change differentials.

Craig

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1994 E420, Pearl Black/Black. 2.82 rear diff., AMG front spoiler, painted lower half. SOLD

1972 & 1974 BMW 2002tii's.

Craig,
I also have a 400E (non-ASR) and am planning to change the gear ratio to a 3:08 as I have a differential sitting on the floor in my shop. And the kicker is that it also has a limited slip in it.

Below is some verbage from another MB 400E owner and his remarks concerning the gear change:

"My engine turns 3,500rpm at 84 mph which is as fast as I can legally go in Colorado. I have no idea of what my fuel mileage is, as I pay no attention to it. My top speed is now 134mph. The gear change lowered my 0-60 times from 9.3 seconds to 7.1 seconds on a six run average at Denvers altitude of 5,200 feet.
I believe my car is now a sub six second 0-60 at sea level. The mid-range acceleration is fantastic."

That statement should make any 400E owner want to change his final drive gear.

Tobias MB
4 MBs

Is changing the differential a DIY job? Maybe I can get Guido or Neil to help me.

I'd like to read the posts from that guy in Colorado. Do you know what the thread is called?

I thought that 400E's are limited at 155mph? And could do that.

Does he mean that altitude has that much affect on 0 to 60 times? 9.3 seconds?

I know that simited slip helps traction, but I'm not sure how it does it. What year and model did your diff come from? I want to send an email to the local MB salvage yard and see if they have one.

Thanks,

Craig

__________________
1994 E420, Pearl Black/Black. 2.82 rear diff., AMG front spoiler, painted lower half. SOLD

1972 & 1974 BMW 2002tii's.

Craig,
The man in Colorado put in a 3:07 out of another MB. He wasn't on MercedeShop or any other site I know of. I had heard of the car and owner through word of mouth and had to ask someone else to forward my message to him as a shot in the dark. He responded with the gear, etc and info with times etc.

The rear diff I have you won't find in a MB salvage yard as it is not from a Benz, but a 92 Ford T'bird! It is what is commonly called a Ford 8.8 and many ratios are available and a variety of ltd slips as Detroit locker, Auburn, Dana etc. These are either clutch type, ratchet or gear depending on use. Overall the gear or Auburn or Quaife are best and most expensive. I've put a similar one from a ZR1 Corvette into my 190 and this is not much different.

And yes, altitude makes a huge difference...ever go snow skiing and feel the thin air effect on you? Same for a motor!

Tobias MB
4 MBs

Man you're up late!

I'll ask the salvage yard for a diff that will fit my car and has limited slip. I do want limited slip don't I?

Being born and raised in So. Califorrnia, I've only been to the snow a few times so I don't remember the air up there. Guess I need to get out more.

Craig

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1994 E420, Pearl Black/Black. 2.82 rear diff., AMG front spoiler, painted lower half. SOLD

1972 & 1974 BMW 2002tii's.

Here is a little formula to calculate the MPH at a certain rpm.
1/(final drive ratio) x (rpm) x (X,this is variable) = MPH

Here is one that I have done
1/2.24 x 2500 x (X) = 78 mph
X = .069888
The final drive of our 400E/E420s is 2.24 so that is the fist one. The rpm of 2500 at 78 mph is what I have observed while driving. So by replacing variables, you can change the gear ratio and find the engine speed at any given rpm.
I have been thinking about this lately and I came up with this formula to find out how livable a new rear end would be. I have come to the conclusion that a 3.07 is to short for my driving. I travel on the highway a lot, so my gas mileage would go down to much, and I calculated that at 60 mph my rpm's would be at approx. 2600 and that is to much for me (now it is below 2000). I would love a new rear end and with gas prices falling (knock on wood), who knows it might happen. If I would only drive around in the city I would be more viable to me. I don't want to give up my low reving highway killer. Thirty five hundred rpm at 80 mph is a lot my car now is around 2700.
Oh yea dont forget the extra ware and tare on the motor.

Subman

__________________
Factory trained Mercedes-Benz Technician
Look At My Website
-2002 C32
(E420 has passed away)
The best way to contat me is e-mail.

Craig:
re: the Denver connection...I believe that car is owned by Stu Ritter. As I recall, he used a diff. case from a 450SL with the internals from something else. He used to own a MB service facility so able to carry out the mods with relative ease. He and Richard Easley run a technical list similar to this one although it's strictly email based. Stu KNOWS these cars!

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Glen Tokuhara
Beauty & the Beast and the wagon that could!

Thanks for the help. I think a rear end closer to 2.82 would be good.

I belong to that discussion group that Stu Ritter is on. I'll send him an email.

Thanks,

Craig

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1994 E420, Pearl Black/Black. 2.82 rear diff., AMG front spoiler, painted lower half. SOLD

1972 & 1974 BMW 2002tii's.

BlackMercedes- that's a 360TE AMG , no turodiesels (TD) here

Regarding the 3.07 limited-slip diff, yes I have one in the wagon, and it's from a 1986 Euro 190E 16-valve. It is the "smaller" differential (lubricant capacity 1.5-liters), but has been reinforced and rebuilt by Rick of RC Imports in Rockville, MD. Rick is a MB shop-owner and a MB racer: http://www.rc-imports.com/

With an AMG'd M104 (aka, C36 engine) which is similar in HP and torque to a 4.0L M119 engine (W124 400E, E420), the wagon with 3.07 rear-end is faster to 90-100 MPH than our 1993 500E from a stand-still.

A 400E with a 3.07 would beat a 500E to the quarter-mile.

The gentleman in Denver with a 400E with 3.07 gears is indeed Stu Ritter. He sold his shop to one of his technicians and is in retirement. Yes, he used the innards of a 450SL or SLC to replace the innards of his 400E diff to give it 3.07 gears and limited-slip.

If you do this route, you need to find a shop that has the proper tools and experience. Rick of RC-Imports has this experience. BTW- the 400E/500E use the "larger" diff with a lubricant capacity of approx. 2-liters.

You are in a good position to do this because your 400E doesn't have ASR.

I've yet to figure out how to do this to our 500E, without getting a new one from Mercedes or RennTech.

Once you have the diff, installation is fairly easy.

Good luck,

:-) neil
1988 360TE AMG
1993 500E

Now I'm intrigue!
I have a 97 E420 with a 2.82 diff. and the 5 speed transmission.
The car is very fast but not from 0-20mph.
If I got the diff from a E320 (3.07 diff), assuming it can easily fit (suppose it should), the car should be amazing.

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2008 S550
2010 GLK350
1997 E420 (retired)
2005 CLK500 (retired)

Yep, 3.07 would be very fast. Are you sure you're starting out in 1st gear and not 2nd?

Not sure for the 1993 E320 and E420 share the same diff size. Maybe not, due to the larger torque in of the E420 motor.

:-) neil

I know I start in first. The car is much happier in "4" rather than "D" and with ASR off. The car is also much happier after a sharp turn - I suppose that's b/c the slip diff has had to disengage. The real problem is the "smart" transmission that must learn that you are planning to drive more sporty. It takes a few brisk accel. for it to learn (kind of annoying, I wished there was a sport button).

Altogether, it seems that this could be one of the most cost-effective upgrade for this car.

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2008 S550
2010 GLK350
1997 E420 (retired)
2005 CLK500 (retired)

Just for information, one of the first MBs to utilize the 5spd A/T was in 1992 in the 300SE. The final drive ratio of that car was a
3.69 just to get that mass of nearly 4800lbs moving, but once moving it would cruise effortlessly and got good gas mileage. And that is with tires larger than yours probably as they were 225/60-16s. A 2.82 would be fine with the 4 spd A/T without the overdrive high gear but with the 5 spd with an o/d fifth it seems it would like something lower like a 3.27.

Tobias MB
4 MBs

I wish these cars were made for the US driving conditions rather than autobahn speed good gas mileage requirements.

If anyone has done a differential swap on a W210, I would like to hear about it.

Modifying an E55 with a 3.46 diesel differential could be exciting!

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2008 S550
2010 GLK350
1997 E420 (retired)
2005 CLK500 (retired)

And expensive!! An E55 owner is in the envious position of already lacking traction. I would not want to experience the short life-span of some $$$$ tires on an E55 with that steep of gear.

I watched a 2000 E55 rip off 13.3 Quarters this summer. That is one fast buggy. I don't think a 3.46 equipped car would be much 0-60 quicker, as hooking up would be a major issue, but 100-150 mph might be much quicker!

We had our C36 at the track, and even it had so much trouble keeping out of the ASR. Mercedes' nanny! I was beaming at our low 14's, when pappa-bear E55 ripped close to a second off our time! The Mustang guys were sobbing when two of the quickest street cars were four door family haulers. Not one stock Stang came close to our C36, much less the E55. The real killer came when my wife sucked the lights out of a late-model GT on the freeway one afternoon. Four doors! Suburban Mom! Ego gone!

I'd read magazine tests showing E55's in the low 13's, but I thought it would be hard to duplicate by an owner. Wrong! It's funny, because I've had some seat-time in an E55, and behind the wheel it didn't feel blistering fast. Deceptive...

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John Shellenberg
1998 C230 "Black Betty" 240K

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