T5 transmission to Iron Block M116/117 - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Tony H · #16 05-23-2020, 10:43 PM

So I measured my bellhousing alignment and it is about .005" off. There is a few thou of play in the bellhousing/intermediate flange connection. If I hold it and tighten the bellhousing/engine block bolts I can get rid of some of it. So not sure if I should be concerned.

rwd4evr · #17 05-25-2020, 02:46 AM

That looks pretty nice. Was it done on a cad machine? I'd love to buy one! I got a euro 4.5 waiting and i don't want to hurt my 4 speed with the fairly significant increase in power. Plus overdrive and a more reasonable 1234 split. Nice job on the design, are you planning on trim the center to make way for a hydraulic throwout bearing or add a ball stud and use a fork and slave maybe?

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rwd4evr · #18 05-25-2020, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony H

So I measured my bellhousing alignment and it is about .005" off. There is a few thou of play in the bellhousing/intermediate flange connection. If I hold it and tighten the bellhousing/engine block bolts I can get rid of some of it. So not sure if I should be concerned.

Get it tight and measure run out with a magnet base on the crank.

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Tony H · #19 05-26-2020, 12:21 AM

Good point Jason-Once I installed all the bolts the runout came down to .004". I had the magnetic base on the flywheel. You can have it made-just take the bellhousing and input bearing retainer to the fab shop and have it done. You would have better control of the quality. With my shop each one would probably be different. I can post pics of the layout cutouts if you like. I'm sure it was done on manual equipment-this is a old school machine shop. But I was impressed with the accuracy. I was expecting more runout. As far as the TO bearing I have over 3" of space from the flat surface inside the bell to the pressure plate fingers. Plenty of space for a concentric TO bearing. There is a little less input shaft pilot engagement based on measurements than the original but I have not measured it with the trans on the engine.

rwd4evr · #20 05-26-2020, 02:00 AM

Yeah I suppose I can get it done on the Haas at my work(been laid off from there but...), I just figured if they had CNC'd it they could knock another out. Oh I meant to say also that the stock Ford pilot bearing is a match for Mercedes crank. It may need a touch from one report but freezing it may do the trick.

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Tony H · #21 05-26-2020, 08:45 PM

The bushing is inexpensive so I may get one to check it out. For some reason I thought the OD was different. I may need a longer bushing made if I don't have enough input shaft engagement. The webbing in the bottom of the bell gives pretty good access for inspection.

rwd4evr · #22 05-29-2020, 03:59 AM

I just looked over all of this and the pics again. That came out really good. Looks solid. Simple. Very repeatable. If I never stumbled into the v8 4 speed I have it's very posiible I would have gone for about exactly this setup. Basically what I had planned for a 6cyl swap with a t5 and my manual bell, but the auto bell actually is better with that raised center register. Huge thumbs up for going through with it and now we can see it will work without possibly throwing money away . I guess thats actually a good surface for the throwout bearing to sit. Or would you have a collar on the bearing retainer snout for the slave to sit? Any worry on flex if not?
As far as a flywheel, its great to have the original, but if you don't, the iron block ring gear diameter gives a ton more room for a 8 bolt crank f-150 flywheel cut down to bolt into an auto ring gear. super cheap, only one bolt hole off. Any mustang nice lightweight aluminum flywheel and clutch also. Really opens up a clutch range too. Shouldn't cost near as much as a Benz Flywheel or clutch after machining. I'm glad I can side step that cost for now, as I'm sure you do, but I've got a bunch of cars and I'd really rather not destroy this stuff that's so rare. I'm not taking my drift car apart till I have a setup I know will work either.
It looks like the driveshaft was meant to be like that. That was a 2 piece w108 v8 driveshaft right?
This excites me for a couple of my cars. My 230s would be great with the 3.5 in my rusty 350se and a t5 . I always thought when I got my first fintail I was dreaming the possibility of getting my hands on a 3.5 and manual trans and turbocharging it. I think it would be a low boost setup and put down similar power to your 5.6 but not as torqey down low. But just getting in there stock would be a step toward getting that one on the road and sorted over some time. It's rust free free for now but I gotta get it moving before it starts to suffer any more outside.
Your car is going to be a riot with 300hp and the 5 speed. It will be a game changer for usability and fun. I highly suggest getting the suspension tuned/stiffened a bit! Do you have Cox Racing polyurethane bushings? How is the v8 coupes suspension tuned? I've never driven one with any power really. My sedan was pretty rolly but it still handled pretty well.

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Tony H · #23 05-29-2020, 06:56 PM

I have a lot planned for the car but it is somewhat valuable and rare so I don't want to go crazy on it-reversible mods in the spirit of the original. I believe suspension is standard 108 fare as is the chassis. I did begin an air suspension conversion based on 109 front control arms and got it so I could load it on a trailer but that's about it. I have all the parts to make the "new" 2 piece driveshaft but I can't have the yoke welded until I can establish the length with engine/trans in the car. I'll post a pic later. I was very pleased how the adaptor worked out. Since the pattern of the trans/bell was close there were some interference issues since I wanted to use as many nut/bolt connections as possible and not threaded in the plate. I used socket head bolts and a few reliefs to work around it.

rwd4evr · #24 05-30-2020, 04:47 AM

Yeah I would love to have a coupe but it's a pretty slim chance I ever will, well at least a real one. I like the fins on the sedan anyway. I've been plotting and planning to build a two door fintail for years. I'll start when my Fab skills are up to it from building junk and learning. Lengthening the doors will be the essential thing. Anyway there's a guy cox racing that used to race a w111 3.5 coupe. He made a full polyurethane bushing kit. I just bought his last set for the w110 I'm Building for a customer. He tried to sell me the molds too but I didn't have the cash. I'm sure he's got them still. It's all bolt in stuff. Rear control arms, both ends. Sway bar and the eccentrics In the front half leaves. I think it needs them in the panhard bar/link thing and the rear axle horn mount. He said he still felt something moving/flexing back there but never got to doing anything about it. Moved on to racing bikes. Im really thinking the swing axle will go away in my ideal build but......
Oh could you give me a rough size of the plate overall? It's 1/2 " right? There are some scrap pieces around at the machine shop I work at I may be able to my hands on.

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Tony H · #25 05-30-2020, 08:55 PM

I did buy the Cox bushings and SS brake lines years ago but progress stalled before I installed them. His 3.5 coupe was the inspiration for a lot of my ideas.
I studied the adaptor quite a bit before I spent money on it. So far I have about $1300 into it including the transmission and driveshaft. I figure about $1500 more to get it finished so that's not bad. I already have the flywheel though. Now it's mostly waiting until I can get my shop done and get the car out of storage. In light of the present situation that may take longer that I expected.

rwd4evr · #26 06-01-2020, 02:42 AM

Which one? Coronavirus or riots?

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Tony H · #27 06-01-2020, 04:14 PM

Coronavirus. There has been an interruption in building supplies and the local building officials are not processing permits.

I'm looking at the Pilot bearing/bushing. I have about .55" of engagement past the crank face. I would be more comfortable with .75" or more. Also the Ford bushing is 1.379" and the MB bore is 1.3755" so the interference would be .0035". I would have to beat the he-- out of it to get it in. I have a guy that can make a C93200 bushing for $75 any size I want so I'm thinking about that. I can make it longer to take advantage of the deep bore and have it extend about .25" past the crank face for more support. It would be about 1.1" long. My question is on the interference fit-how much? The best I can come up with is .002" for a bronze bushing in steel. there would be a lot of the bushing in the crank-like .8".

rwd4evr · #28 06-01-2020, 10:43 PM

I don't know how much bronze shrinks but freezing overnight made my pilot bearing fall in and then get nice and tight. My other thought on a bushing/bearing was a steel/aluminum insert in the crank with a correct size hole for a needle bearing. Not sure if tgat would be a good idea but it's one that crossed my mind. If getting a couple of those bushings made makes them cheaper let me know. I can think of at least two I'd like to have.

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Tony H · #29 06-01-2020, 11:58 PM

I'm not fond of needle bearings-I've had several fail including my 3.5. I will find out about quantity. I was thinking about freezing it with dry ice.

rwd4evr · #30 06-03-2020, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony H

I'm not fond of needle bearings-I've had several fail including my 3.5. I will find out about quantity. I was thinking about freezing it with dry ice.

There was a needle bearing in your 3.5? That's interesting. My 4 speed uses a roller bearing. It calls for a open bearing with some odd seal that goes in after it. I replaced it with a high temp sealed bearing. I wonder if they are the same trans essentially or significantly different.

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