my next mod: Bi-Xenon HID headlamp upgrade - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

ke6dcj · #31 06-09-2003, 06:27 PM

Mike- congrats and THANK YOU for dealing with the GLARE, by installing shields.

Installation of shields without measurements is a trial-and-error proposition, and without tooling, I doubt one can get repetable results, but thanks for doing it.

I hope all of that "shielded" light going somewhere useful.

:-) neil
1988 360TE AMG
1993 500E

mike690003 · #32 06-09-2003, 06:30 PM

BTW my HID kit came out of a wrecked Porsche. They are ugly,but they are OEM and are perfect working (4100k or 4300k).Not like those cheap Jap kits.

ke6dcj · #33 06-09-2003, 06:33 PM

Mike please post pictures, especially the shield.

We need more conscientious HID upgraders like you.

Scott: good thing you didn't have to shell out $$$, just some LAN labor hours. It'll be interesting if they fit in the existing housing without modification.

:-) neil
1988 360TE AMG
1993 500E

mike690003 · #34 06-09-2003, 06:37 PM

i will definetly post the pics ASAP.

run.exe · #35 06-09-2003, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mike690003
i will definetly post the pics ASAP.

ibid.

(I will have them, tomorrow...)

suginami · #36 06-09-2003, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by run.exe
Neil (et al.),

Please elaborate upon/explain in more detail the required "relays."

I need to put together a shopping-list, ASAP.

Thank you,

Scott,

Carl at Bergwerks sells the relay kit with the heavy gauge wires and relays. It might be cheaper to buy separately, but it sure is convenient to buy from him:

http://www.bergwerks.com/relay_kits.jsp

run.exe · #37 06-09-2003, 08:39 PM

Shanta just informed me of the same...

I will buy Carl's kit, because he is cool/has been supportive, thus far.

gsxr · #38 06-09-2003, 11:12 PM

I looked at the BergWerks kit and there are 2 things I don't like about it. First, the wire size is too small (IMO) for over-wattage bulbs. Second, they only include two relays, not four. That means you get to drape wires across the bumper or radiator to feed the "other" side. I'd want at least 10 gauge feeding the relays, and two relays per side (one for low beam, one for the high beam + pencil H3's.) That's how I ran mine and voltage drop is 0.3v on low beam (100w), 0.5v on high beam (230w combined). With electrical stuff, it's hard to go overkill except when you reach the point of wires SO big they're hard to terminate (imagine connecting a battery/starter cable to your H3 bulb, for example). Note that the BergWerks kit is adequate for standard bulbs sizes, and is "ok" for overwattage bulbs, just NOT optimal. (My college degree is in electrical technology, so I'm not just talking out my arse here...

) If you want to buy from BergWerks, I'm sure they'll be happy to accomodate you with some larger wires and 2 more relays, after trying to convince you that "gsxr" clown on the Internet is a real Bozo.

Check out my photos at the URL posted earlier for how I ran my setup. (Yes, I will eventually add text writeups to go with all the photos, so I don't have to keep re-typing this stuff all the time!) For my other 124, which has the same 500E Euro Hellas but hasn't gotten relays installed yet, I plan to feed each pair of relays with 8 gauge wire, splitting to one 10ga per relay, and then 12ga out to the bulbs... all one size larger than my current setup. I want to get down to 0.3v drop on high beam too!

Also note that for a 500E, you'd need a third relay for the bumper fogs only. Since the pencils come on with high beams, those get driven off the high beam relay(s)... not any point in getting another one *only* for the pencils, as the bottleneck is still the feed wire from the battery. Hope this makes sense...

BTW - I was considering doing HID in the other 124 instead of relays. I think y'all have sucessfully talked me out of it for now. Thanks!!

Regards,

run.exe · #39 06-09-2003, 11:15 PM

Suggestion:

Put together a W124 lighting upgrade kit and SELL IT; I'll be your first customer - and I will advertise it on my website for FREE.

I honestly don't have time to source all this stuff; PLEASE HELP!!!

gsxr · #40 06-09-2003, 11:17 PM

Hmmm, ya know, that's not a bad idear! Might have to check into that. :p

run.exe · #41 06-09-2003, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gsxr
Hmmm, ya know, that's not a bad idear! Might have to check into that. :p

ASAP!!!

speedy300Dturbo · #42 06-09-2003, 11:18 PM

I'd buy it!

run.exe · #43 06-09-2003, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by speedy300Dturbo
I'd buy it!

Almost ALL OF US (W124-types) would buy it, I would imagine.

I'll even front you the cash to put a kit together for me, Dave.

RSVP

ke6dcj · #44 06-09-2003, 11:34 PM

I used MB connectors which can hold 10-ga. stranded copper wire and wired in the 40A Hella Relays.

Here are some sample pics:

More mods here:
http://www.dhc.net/~pmhack/mercedes/300te883.htm
http://www.dhc.net/~pmhack/mercedes/300te882.htm
http://www.silcom.com/~neilv/sportline

Enjoy,
:-) neil
1988 360TE AMG
1993 500E

ke6dcj · #45 06-09-2003, 11:40 PM

Per Daniel Stern (http://lighting.mbz.org):

There's no way to say "You'll only get X percent of the HID's
capability". You'll have an improper beam, period. Zero percent of the
HID's capability!

There are many unsafe, illegal and noncompliant products on the market,
mainly consisting of an HID ballast and bulb for "retrofitting" into a
halogen headlamp. Often, these products are advertised using the name of a
reputable lighting company ("Real Philips kit! Real Osram kit!") to try
to give the potential buyer the illusion of security. While some of the
components in these kits are sometimes made by the companies mentioned,
reputable companies like Philips, Osram, Hella, etc. NEVER endorse this
kind of "retrofit" usage of their products.

Halogen headlamps and HID headlamps require very different optics to
produce a safe and effective -- not to mention legal -- beam pattern. It
is not some great feat of upgrade engineering to put an HID capsule where
a halogen bulb belongs, it is just plain foolishness. Some types of
halogen headlamp bulbs (9004, 9007, H3) use a transverse (side-to-side)
and/or offset (not directly in line with the central axis of the headlamp
reflector) filament, the position and orientation of which is physically
impossible to match with a "retrofit" HID capsule. Even those halogen
headlamps that use axial-filament (9005, 9006, H1, H7) bulbs are not
safely or legitimately "convertible", regardless of what kinds of "clever"
products the junk vendors come up with.

The most dangerous part of the attempt to "retrofit" Xenon headlamps is
that sometimes you get a deceptive and illusory "improvement" in the
performance of the headlamp. The performance of the headlamp is perceived
to be "better" because of the much higher level of foreground lighting (on
the road immediately in front of the car). However, examining isoscans of
the beam patterns produced by this kind of "conversion" reveals *less*
distance light, and often an alarming relative minimum where there's meant
to be a relative maximum in light intensity. When you *think* you can see
better than you can, you're *not* safe.

It's tricky to judge headlamp beam performance without a lot of knowledge,
a lot of training and a lot of special equipment, because subjective
perceptions are very misleading. Having a lot of strong light in the
foreground, that is on the road close to the car and out to the sides, is
very comforting and reliably produces a strong *impression* of "good
headlights". The problem is that not only is foreground lighting of
decidedly secondary importance when travelling much above 30 mph, but
having a very strong pool of light close to the car causes your pupils to
close down, *worsening* your distance vision...all the while giving you
this false sense of security. This is to say nothing of the massive
amounts of glare to other road users and backdazzle to you, the driver,
that results from these "retrofits".

HID headlamps also require careful weatherproofing and electrical
shielding because of the high voltages involved. These unsafe "retrofits"
make it physically possible to insert an HID bulb where a halogen bulb
belongs, but this practice is illegal and dangerous, regardless of claims
by these marketers that their systems are "beam pattern corrected" or the
fraudulent use of established brand names to try to trick you into
thinking the product is legitimate. In order to work correctly and safely,
HID headlamps must be designed from the start as HID headlamps.

The only safe and legitimate HID retrofit is one that replaces the
*entire* headlamp -- that is lens, reflector, bulb...the WHOLE shemozzle
-- with optics designed for HID usage. It IS possible to get clever with
available products, such as Hella's modular projectors available in HID or
halogen, and fabricate your own brackets and bezels. But just putting an
HID bulb where a halogen one belongs is bad news all around.

DS

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