Gary,

How did you install the 129 351 14 42 subframe bushings?. I ended up with both these and the stock 124 350 86 08. Here is a picure of the stock part next to the 129 351 14 42. The 129s are still in the bag in case this is the wrong part. Notice the 129.... is about a 1/4 inch larger all around than stock (about 1/2" larger diameter). Is there a trick to it, is there a mod required, or is this just the wrong part?

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There are four subframe bushings... two smaller ones in front of the tires, two larger ones behind. You have one of each in the photo. I used a special Klann installation tool to install mine. Photos of before & after are here:

http://www.w124performance.com/images/W124_subframe/

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GSXR seems to have the right answer. Check out the photos in his link.

A question for GSXR - I notice that you have braided SS brakes lines. Whose are they and is there any problems mounting them or using the stock hose guides?

Gary

Gary, about the braided brake lines:

1) I got mine from Bekkers, but if I were to buy another set I would buy from StopTech... they are enclosed in a clear vinyl tube for extra protection. These were not available when I bought mine about 4 years ago.

2) IIRC, the rear lines bolted up with no mods. In the front, the S/S line nut was not large enough to seat in the bracket welded to the frame, so I had to add a washer.

3) The difference in braking feel is quite small... don't expect a huge change. I felt more of a difference in pedal feel just switching to Porterfield R4-S pads.

4) If you brake lines are more than 10-15 years old, they should be replaced on principle... rubber wears out with age, not miles. New rubber lines are approx $60/set (I think), the S/S lines are a little over $100 (I think)... haven't checked prices lately.

OK, thanks for clarifying. I was confused on two points.

I thought the larger bushings were the forward of the four rather than the aft.

The other matter which I cleared up with a part number search was that the parts labeled on the bag "rear subframe bushings" (124 352 7765) were really differential bushings.

So the sportlines are the aft (larger) rear subframe bushings and the forward bushings are the same on either suspension.

The Sportlines are the larger rear bushings, and are different (firmer) than the originals.

The front bushings are the same for Sportline and non-Sportline cars, however they are different (but interchangeable) for early and late cars. I used the late style front bushing in my early car, I prefer the design... not sure what the difference is between them though.

GSXR,

How do they differ visually? What is it that you prefer about the late style design? Do you have any feeling about longevity between the two?

Gary

Hi Gary,

1) I have NO idea about the longevity between the two - I would guess they are similar but have no data to back that up.

2) The difference is hard to explain - it's easier to look at the photos. Check out the picture of my old front bushing. Note there is no rectangular nubs between the top of the bushing and the car body? It seems that the subframe could move upwards under hard cornering. The late style has that little extra section that sandwiches between the top of the bushing and the car body. It appears like it may allow less subframe movement, but I'm not sure. In the EPC, the later cars specify this newer bushing, but the older cars still spec the old bushing - the old bushing is NOT superceded by the new. I actually didn't notice this until after I installed my new bushings. I just looked up a 1993 300E Sportline and ordered the part numbers listed for that car. They fit fine, and the car felt noticeably 'tighter' when pushed, althoug my old bushings were totally shot - even new non-Sportline bushings probably would have made a big difference in my case.

Dave M.:
I've been following your posts on this forum re: Sportline upgrades and have downloaded your spreadsheets.....a big help!
I have just acquired 2 '95 124s: an E320 wagon with 61K miles
an E300D sedan with 30K miles
Having driven a 96 210 Diesel for 10 years, I was a little disappointed in the wallowy ride of the 124s and would like to 'straighten' them out a bit; but not for autox or even aggressive driving....just take the lean and dive out of them. The ride of the W210 is what I'm trying to achieve. The ride significantly tighter, flatter and firmer by comparison.
Both suspensions including bushings are in good shape. The pneumatic rear of the wagon, too, although I'm getting a little squeak from the wagon's left front going over speed bumps. The strut?
WAGON:
Your spread sheet shows that the front sway bar is exactly the same dimensions as the Sportline. The 500E bar is only .5mm larger, but doesn't taper whereas the 'limo' is 1.0mm larger but tapers. Which one to maintain some comfort in the ride.
How about the rear given the self leveling suspension? Anyone have any experience with modifications? Which bar is preferable.
I don't want to go overboard on the wagon so no change springs or struts, although I've been told that the front springs from the 1988 300TE are firmer and a cheap upgrade.
DIESEL SEDAN
I may consider including some strut and spring mods here. Who is the supplier of the sportline struts/shocks? Bilstein? ARe Bilstein Comfort firmer or softer than the Sportline struts/shocks..
Since the sportline springs drop the car, it will be necessary to change the shocks, correct?
Thanks.
Chris

Hi Chris,

That front squeak is likely the sway bar bushings - much less likely to be the strut, but it's possible. Anyway:

Wagon:
I'd go with the 'limo' front bar, simply because the 500E bar is shaped for the V8 engine, and you may run into clearance issues on a 6-cyl setup. Out back, I'd go up one size - if you have 15.0mm now, install a 16.5mm. Don't worry about the impact to SLS, there really shouldn't be any. I also wouldn't worry about messing with the springs, unless you're looking to install the full wagon Sportline setup (not cheap for a wagon - parts from Germany required!).

Diesel Sedan:
Nice car you have there - and wow, talk about low miles! I'm jealous. The Bilstein Comforts are the softer versions designed for stock ride height, the Heavy Duty (HD's) are the firm version for stock height. Another option for stock ride height is KONI 'reds'. The Bilstein Sport, Mercedes Sportline, and KONI 'yellows' are designed for a car that's lowered approximately 1 inch. Figure out if you're going to lower the car or not, and buy the correct shocks/struts to match. Don't lower the car and use dampers designed for the stock ride height, while this may work OK, it is not optimal for performance handling. The dampers for lowered cars also have less travel, which is nice, IMO. I would go for Sportline springs all around with the Sport, Sportline, or KONI Yellow dampers. And, of course, larger sway bars too. Assuming the rubber suspension bushings are all perfect (which they may be at only 30kmi), you could leave those alone unless you're really wanting the full Sportline setup (which is great, but not that cheap, especially if you don't install the parts yourself.) Also - the strut shaft bumper for lowered/Sportline cars is shorter and firmer, I'd get a pair of those, rather than use your existing taller/softer bumpers. (See photo below.)


General tip: When selecting the Sportline spring part numbers in the EPC, I'd recommend getting the taller/stiffer ones that will not lower the car as much. This does two things - One, it lets you use thinner spring pads (the thick ones crush down over time, which is a pain if you're trying to raise the car and can't). And two, if you really want it lower, you can always cut off an inch or two from the spring (this isn't really a great thing to do but it will work). If the springs are too low/short, you can't raise it without replacing the springs again. I'm in that boat with my diesel - I have Carat lowering springs designed for the 300E, and the car sits lower than I want, even with the thickest spring pads. I have to buy stiffer/taller Sportline springs to raise it up. Oh yeah - new springs & pads take a week or two to settle in, the ride height may drop 1/4 to 1/2 inch over the first month or so. Don't get crazy making adjustments right away or the car could end up lower than you really want. (Don't ask how I know.)

Final warning: Don't attempt to swap springs without the proper Mercedes (Klann) spring compressor, or one of the off-shore copies. Rusty (800-741-5252) rents this, as does Performance Products, if you need it.

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I would additionally offer this bit of advice since it's one of those things that is really impractical to compare.

I have a '92 Factory Sportline and a '93 Factory Sportline. When I changed the original sportline struts and shocks on the '92 to Bilstein Sports there was a noticeable increase in firmness bordering on harshness. Took a while to get used to the difference.

If it were me I would definitely go with the factory sportline shocks. This is a perfect compromise between handling and comfort.


Warning! Once you experience Sportline suspension, you will be hooked.

Steve

Glad to hear that. I just ordered struts and shocks two days ago and Rusty suggested I stick with the original factory sportline items which is what I ordered.

I owe you guys an update (forthcoming) with pictures (not yet downloaded from the camera) showing the learning experience (painful) and how easy it is to R&R control arms once you have made the appropriate blood sacrifices. And you may avoid the blood sacrifices if you remember the most important lesson which is WEAR GLOVES!.

I wasn't aware that Sportline had 'taller' springs which would allow keeping the stock shocks on the 124. I presumed that by changing to the Sportline springs it also required change of shocks to accomodate the reduced ride height.What are the part nos? (or link to your EPC).
A general questioin re: springs vs. shocks:
I have always been under the impression that to 'improve' ride, changing shocks (and possibly bars) was the way to go. Having read the numerous threads posted on this and other sites over the past 2-3 years, it seems that changing springs is an alternative and perhaps the cheaper way to achieve a better ride. In the case of the 124 (and in particular a 95) has anyone done these conversions step by step (bars then springs then shocks)to observe the changes in handling at the various stages? No sense in over modifying if subjectively you can achieve happiness for less cost.
Dave,your posts suggest you did this, in part, with sportline bars first and then to the 'limo', right?
What is your overall impression of the Sportline set up? Does the tapered ends of the bars keep the MB ride that the non tapered bars don't?
Is the Bilstein comfort firmer or softer than the Sportline shock?
Chris

Hold on one sec... most all the Sportline springs will lower a 124 compared to the standard springs. However there are multiple part numbers for each, to accomodate for different setups - gas vs diesel, stripped vs fully loaded, sedan vs wagon, etc etc. I think there are 4 different part numbers for front springs and 2 different for rear (non-SLS). However it's not likely that any of the Sportline springs will really be optimal with stock shocks - best to keep the springs & dampers matched.

Now to 'improve' the ride, that depends if you want soft/cushy, or to reduce body roll. Usually any lowering springs will result in a firmer ride but with less body roll. I first had Sportline bars, then went to the limo+500E bars. I never had a non-tapered front bar (the only one I know of is the Eibach). I think the ride is quite acceptable. To retain a near-stock 'soft' ride with less body roll, I'd leave the stock springs & dampers (or maybe try KONI reds), and get bigger sway bars. And upgrade from the silly stock wheels (15x6.5 with 195/65 tires) to at least a 16x7.0 with 205/55 tires. That's assuming you don't want the car lowered for appearance purposes (I personally think the stock height is a little too tall.) I've never comparted them but I would expect the Bilstein Comforts to definitely be softer than Sport/Sportline anything.

A short list of some assorted W124 Sportline part numbers is attached below. If you need a copy of the EPC, drop me an email...

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124_suspension.txt (3.3 KB, 470 views)

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are the rear links the same?

is this a good deal? 230 bucks for all. i would rather buy from fastlane, so i would see if they have a comparable sportline kit.

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