V8's vs I6's - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

JayRash · #1 04-12-2010, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnathan1

I love the smoothness of inline 6's, but I also love the instant torque of the V8.

My solution? Have one of each. An inline six for when you want to rev it like crazy on a tight twisty mountain road. (amazing) Then have a V8 around for those long highway trips, so you can accelerate ferociously when you put your foot down, no matter what speed you're going.

Oh, and since this is a mercedes forum, have a diesel around for all other times.

Get an M104 3.6 AMG engine, 220lbft @ 1500 going to 286lbft @ 3700-4500 and then back to 220lbft @ 6500. and it will rev to 7000RPM.

diesel_fan · #2 07-22-2010, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnathan1

I love the smoothness of inline 6's, but I also love the instant torque of the V8.

My solution? Have one of each. An inline six for when you want to rev it like crazy on a tight twisty mountain road. (amazing) Then have a V8 around for those long highway trips, so you can accelerate ferociously when you put your foot down, no matter what speed you're going.

Oh, and since this is a mercedes forum, have a diesel around for all other times.

That's what i have!

GGR · #3 07-22-2010, 10:23 PM

Two different engines! I like both. I'm more a '60 '70 guy so when it comes to V8s i had a nice W109 6.3. Monster torque, but running out of puff above 4000 rpm. I'm currently building a W111 Coupe with a 5.0 euro M117 mated to a 5 speed manual trans.

When it comes to L6s, I had a few M130 powered cars, but I have to admit I prefer the BMW engines. I own a '72 BM 3.0 CSI and it's just superb over 4000 rpm.

Roncallo · #4 07-22-2010, 11:01 PM

The more cylinders the merrier. Just get a V12. 400+ Ft-Lb torque everywhere revs like a 3.0 inline 6, because it's essentially 2 of them, smooth as a good French wine and sounds really really sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet

LUVMBDiesels · #5 08-20-2010, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diesel_fan

...My solution? Have one of each. An inline six for when you want to rev it like crazy on a tight twisty mountain road. (amazing) Then have a V8 around for those long highway trips, so you can accelerate ferociously when you put your foot down, no matter what speed you're going.

Oh, and since this is a mercedes forum, have a diesel around for all other times.

That's what i have!

Me too

I have the Volvo 960 with the 3.0 l twin cam I6 quicker then my BMW and handles ALMOST as well
The SDL for 'economy'
The Suburban for torque
Of course the torque of the 603 is great too... I love pulling away from ricers...

samiam44 · #6 08-30-2010, 09:58 AM

I must say as an owner of both a 300E and a e420.

The V8 is much more fun and I feel more passionate about it. The gentle rumble when started and the way it drives. I think the I6's are kinda heavy now the 200E's with the 4 cylinders feel much lighter and balanced.

Michael

LUVMBDiesels · #7 08-30-2010, 02:21 PM

One car I always wanted was the old Firebird Sprint with the OHC I6.
It was supposed to be much better balanced than her V8 powered sisters and almost as fast.

Hey, while we are on the subject, what about flat sixes?
I loved the flat six in my Corvair. It had plenty of torque and was pretty smooth. You could not rev it too hard though or the fan belt would fly off!

tbomachines · #8 04-11-2010, 09:39 PM

There's something about the smoothness of the I6 that gets me. Of course displacement is a handicap vs. v8s, but IMO it is advantage to everyday driving due to the mileage and fuel consumption. I'd take a V8 over V6 almost any day, but I6 over V8 as well.

400Eric · #9 07-23-2010, 06:21 AM

400E vs. C36
(4.2 M119 V8 W124 vs. 3.6 M104 I6 W202.)

This 3.6 M104 I6's advantages:
Was built, modified, and breathed upon by AMG
Housed in a smaller, lighter car
Owned, maintained and driven by a M.B. master tech
Much better gearing (2.82 vs. 2.24)
Riding on MUCH better tires (4.2 car was/is on tiny 205/60-15s!)
Is newer (about the same miles though)
Not T-boned to within an inch of it's life like the 400E was

This 4.2 M119 V8's advantages:
Um, err, ah, ......
OK! Here are two! It's about a half liter bigger and...
There are 32 ports and valves feeding it instead of only 24.

Here's what happened: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa5h4fq2Jkg
The 4.2 had the higher MPH but the 3.6 had the quicker E/T.
If the 400E had only ONE of those advantages that the C36 enjoys (the 2.82 gears), it would easily out E/T the C36 as well.

The OP's original post was also about handling. There's less engine sitting out in front of the front wheel centerline with the V8, leading to the advantage of better weight distribution.

I don't think M.B. ever made an all aluminum I6. Their all aluminum V-8s are common however.

I had a mildly hopped up late 70s 4.2 I6 AMC Concord (no "e" on the end) that I out top ended a late 70s 450SL with and I also had another mildly hopped up late 70s 4.2 I6 AMC Concord that I out dragged a mid to late 80s 560SL with so I have been on the other side of the fence as well. Still kinda am actually cause all three of my diesels (the Volvo in my sig, a DT466E International, and a "P" pump Cummins powered Ford F700) are all I6s as well as Benzers 1 and 2! I've taken great delight through the years in spanking V8s with my various I6s!

Another thing to consider: My 12 counterweight AMC 4.2 (258) I6 cranks weigh 68 pounds, my AMC 401 (6.6L) V8 cranks weigh 62 pounds! This is despite the fact that the 401 is a much bigger engine and it's cranks are forged (which makes them denser, which makes them heavier) and the 258 cranks are cast (which makes them lighter).

Mag, did you ever post the weights of the 2.8, 3.0, 3.2 and 3.6 cranks? (For those of you who don't know, the 3.6 cranks are really 3.5 diesel cranks.) It is a safe bet that those cranks are way heavier than the 4.2 M119 crank, probably even heavier than the AMC 4.2 I6 cranks since the M.B. cranks are all forged.

This is another one of those arguments where it's kinda like trying to prove which is better: Blonds or Brunettes! (For the record, Brunettes are better!)

I'd still love to be able to add a C36 to my fleet though.

Regards, Eric

MAG58 · #10 07-23-2010, 12:19 PM

I did, and I forgot the numbers. The 3.5 diesel crank is significantly heavier than the AMG crank since amg did some lightening (read: clearancing) on the crank. There is a ton of weight to be removed from them though, and I think when I build my motor I'm going to have the crank knife-edged. The one thing the M104's love to do though is turn. I'm not sure how having the stroker crank is going to change that... I'm still trying to figure out a good rod length/ compression height compromise for a low CR (9:1 ballpark) but decent rod length/stroke ratio.

The M119 head does breathe really well though and a pretty close to production M119 block and heads were used pretty extensively in racing with decent results. Never seen an M104 compaigned from the factory, and I still cant find a good flow bench or decent numbers for the gal'.

And Eric, Brunettes are better.

400Eric · #11 07-24-2010, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAG58

I did, and I forgot the numbers.

And Eric, Brunettes are better.

You did post the weights? Where? I'm really curious! I just went through all of your posts desperately trying to find that post!

Also, is the 3.0 OM603 crank the same as the 3.2 M104 crank? Being the same stroke has me curious about that one too.

"Brunettes are better." I knew you are a smart kid!
Regards, Eric

MAG58 · #12 07-24-2010, 02:08 PM

Ne'er fear, I had the numbers and lost them before I posted them. Lol. I'll dig all three back out and weigh them before the stroker goes off to be knife edged and nitrided. The more mass I can cut out of this motor the happier she'll be at high RPM.

To answer your question, I'm about 95% sure that the M104 crank (3.2) is the same crank as the OM603 3.0L crank.

400Eric · #13 08-31-2010, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 400Eric

400E vs. C36
(4.2 M119 V8 W124 vs. 3.6 M104 I6 W202.)

This 3.6 M104 I6's advantages:
Was built, modified, and breathed upon by AMG
Housed in a smaller, lighter car
Owned, maintained and driven by a M.B. master tech
Much better gearing (2.82 vs. 2.24)
Riding on MUCH better tires (4.2 car was/is on tiny 205/60-15s!)
Is newer (about the same miles though)
Not T-boned to within an inch of it's life like the 400E was

This 4.2 M119 V8's advantages:
Um, err, ah, ......
OK! Here are two! It's about a half liter bigger and...
There are 32 ports and valves feeding it instead of only 24.

Here's what happened: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa5h4fq2Jkg
The 4.2 had the higher MPH but the 3.6 had the quicker E/T.
If the 400E had only ONE of those advantages that the C36 enjoys (the 2.82 gears), it would easily out E/T the C36 as well.

The OP's original post was also about handling. There's less engine sitting out in front of the front wheel centerline with the V8, leading to the advantage of better weight distribution.

I don't think M.B. ever made an all aluminum I6. Their all aluminum V-8s are common however.

I'd still love to be able to add a C36 to my fleet though.

Regards, Eric

Correction! the C36 has 2.87 rear gears not 2.82.
Regards, Eric

wbain5280 · #14 08-31-2010, 04:35 AM

[QUOTE=400Eric;This 4.2 M119 V8's advantages:

I don't think M.B. ever made an all aluminum I6. Their all aluminum V-8s are common however.

Eric[/QUOTE]

MB's M189 was all aluminum, save the cast iron liners, and was used in 50's and 60's 300's, such as 300SL's and 300SE/L's. It's a robust, though complex, engine.

MAG58 · #15 07-23-2010, 07:00 PM

Was it the M110 or the M104.94?

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Parts intechange from 4.5 to 3.5 V8s?	tristar_north	Vintage Mercedes Forum	6	02-14-2003 01:32 AM
K&N performance air filter for 4.5 liter V8's	M D Nugent	Mercedes-Benz Used Parts For Sale & Wanted	0	01-16-2003 03:06 PM
K & N filters for the V8's (400/500e's)	aldedmon	Mercedes-Benz Performance Paddock	0	04-25-2002 03:18 PM
Oil Change info on M116/M117 V8s!	David C Klasse	Tech Help	0	03-26-2002 11:59 PM
Has anyone any experience with E430 V8's	Bax	Tech Help	4	12-03-2001 06:54 AM