Looking at an '87, 560SL

I'm considering a neighbor's '87 SL. It has 181,000 miles on it. What should I be looking for and what do you believe is a reasonal price? Other than normal wear for the mileage it appears to be in good shape. No body damage, good paint with a few chips; cracked leather, two tops.

I have an '88 420 SEL, with 120,000 miles so I'm somewhat familiar with the Mercedes quirks. I also have a very knowledgable, computerized non-mercedes mechanic who keeps my 420 going. I'll have him look at this SL. And he has worked on the neighbor's SL, but I am particularly interested in any special failure risks with the 560 SL, that you might advise me on.

I'll appreciate your comments.

Jerry

[Strife]

A thorough reading of these forums is very important to gauge what to expect. Unless the car has been maintained very thoroughly/proactively and has extensive records, you can expect to spend a lot, even assuming that the engine head/block and transmission are perfect. I've spent a good $1000 in discounted maintenance/"hard" wear related parts alone, you could easily triple or even quarduple that at a dealership with labor. If you can do many of your own repairs, this will help. At this point with that mileage, I would expect at least one water pump, timing chain / etc replacement, motor mount/subframe mount replacement, etc to have already been done. Maybe the radiator/hoses/belts and fuel pumps. It may be time again! A general rule I've seen here is to have 3K in your pocket immediately you buy one, an expect to spend it on the car.

The "wear and tear" parts you mention add up fast. A new top and seat covers can easily run 2.5K+ at a shop. Even in parts alone this can be 1K. The freaking carpeting is expensive and complex .I figure I spent $400 on third-party weatherstripping and DIY'd them.

It depends on whether or not you can live with cosmetic imperfections. But keep in mind that bad weatherstripping/seals cause water to run into places, causing rust, which is a "walk away" situation on this car.

Thanks for the good advice. The high maintenance/repair potential does scare me.

[matt7531]

Dude, I bought a 380SL for 3k. It probably needs 10k worth of work, but I drive it the way it is. Just buy it cheap and run it into the ground, it'll take 10 years for it to fall apart. Just keep her topped up!

I like your philosophy. That's pretty much the way I drive my cars, but I'm a nervous driver. . . meaning I'm always expecting my cars to drop dead at the most inappropriate time and place.

[Roncallo]

I bought a 1988 560 in October, which I feel was in very good condition. I'v since put in $2000.00 (in parts only) and expect it will need an additional $600 to bring it up to 100% mechanicaly perfect condition. Some of the stuff I expected when I bought the car the rest is a matter of maintenance required due to age and the fact that I had the head off and things were easy to get at.

The stuf that was required when I bought the car were

Head gasket, Engine Mounts, Muffler, Ignition Wires, Tires, Front Rotors, Caliper Kits and Pads, Monovalve kit.

This amounted to $1100.00 worth.

The rest of the stuff that added up to another $900.00 was:

Oil& Filter, Trans Oil & Filter, Air Filter, Airpump Filter, PS Fluid & Filter, Spark Plugs, Valve Cover Gaskets, 3 upper Timing Chain Rails and Chain, Drive Shaft Support and Bearing, Drive Shaft U joint and coupling boot, Transmission output bearing, Intake Manifold to Plenum Chamber seals. All vacume line and rubber elbows, Air Cleaner and Airflow Sensor rubber isoloators, Water Outlet hose to Intake Manifold, Air intake boot below air flow sensor, vacume check to air pump control, Hypoid gear lube, Anti Freeze, Colored Shrink tube to color code all vacume lines. and other various little nick nacks.

These were replaced as a mater of maintainance due to unknown service records, or while I had the intake manifold off it was a good time to replace 17 year old rubber and plastic parts. Or while I was inspecting the drive shaft it was a good time to rebuild it. etc.

The car still needs the limited slip clutches replaced, cruise control fixed, and the AC controler replaced. At that point the car will be in 100% mechanically sound condition. From hear I do not expect it to ever have more than 1 or 2 things wrong to keep it 100%. Nor do I expect it to be any sort of burden for me to keep it 100%.

This might sound frightening to some. But for the most part, most owners would never have known anything more than the head gasket, and monovalve had a problem when they bought the car. The rest was me being in the restoration mode.

For the person wondering about weak pionts in the 560SL, I would have to say

Head Gasket, Monovalve, Timing Chain & Rails, Engine and Subframe mounts, Anything with an electical circuite board, like AC control push button assy, any relay etc. (Usually these can be repaired with a soldering iron). I have also read alot about sub frames cracking and noticed the Fast Lane has them in stock (not a good sign).

John Roncallo

John Roncallo

I must say that if you did all that for $2,000 you must be one whale of a mechanic. I'm a low grade DIY'er but I could never acheive what you did. My biggest concern is the timing chain and rails. At this point I don't know whether or when it was changed. I can't do it myself and my mechanic will not get inside the engine because he doesn't have the specs. That leaves a Mercedes dealer and you know what they charge. Anyway, I appreciate your detail, and I'll pass it on to my mechanic.

[matt7531]

Originally Posted by lakelover

I like your philosophy. That's pretty much the way I drive my cars, but I'm a nervous driver. . . meaning I'm always expecting my cars to drop dead at the most inappropriate time and place.

Mercedes really have a dual personality, and it shows on this forum. They seem high maintenance, because the people posting here are nit-picking anal retentive types who are obsessed with their cars and will spend two days looking through junkyards to replace a scratched door handle. Here's a secret: you can beat the living crap out of MBs and they will love you for it like a psychotic woman.

[matt7531]

Originally Posted by lakelover

I must say that if you did all that for $2,000 you must be one whale of a mechanic. I'm a low grade DIY'er but I could never acheive what you did. My biggest concern is the timing chain and rails. At this point I don't know whether or when it was changed. I can't do it myself and my mechanic will not get inside the engine because he doesn't have the specs. That leaves a Mercedes dealer and you know what they charge. Anyway, I appreciate your detail, and I'll pass it on to my mechanic.

I don't know what part of TX you are in, but there are independent MB shops all over that are much more reasonable than the dealers. Tming chain, rail job is pretty routine on these cars. If you are where I think you, near that chain of fine fishing lakes up near Mt. Vernon, you can find excellent mechanics in Dallas.

You're right. . . that's where I am. I may check out some of the Dallas independents, but I got ripped with one of them working on my 420 SEL. Still, you make a good point. Do you have a recommendation?

[matt7531]

Check out the Good MB Shops section of this site.

[Roncallo]

Originally Posted by lakelover

I must say that if you did all that for $2,000 you must be one whale of a mechanic. I'm a low grade DIY'er but I could never acheive what you did. My biggest concern is the timing chain and rails. At this point I don't know whether or when it was changed. I can't do it myself and my mechanic will not get inside the engine because he doesn't have the specs. That leaves a Mercedes dealer and you know what they charge. Anyway, I appreciate your detail, and I'll pass it on to my mechanic.

Well 16 years ago I was an MB technician. I do all of the work myself which is the only reason I can afford an MB. One of the things that you can do when you work on your own car is try things that you would not normally sell to a customer. For example I repaired the push button control unit for the climate control system the cost was about $7.00 for one button and one back light bulb. The reasone it was not working was due to a broken soldered conection. At the dealership I cannot afford to try this type of repair. I have to do something that I know will work the first time, which meanes in that case replace the push button control unit. I belive new ones from the dealer are > $700.00. There are several other similare cases. Fore example I need to fix my AC center vents. I belive I have isolated the problem to the Temperature control module. This module is $1500.00 from the dealer or $400 for an aftermarket unit or $109 for a rebuilt unit or $25 for a used one on E-bay. I will probably take mine out this week end and take it appart and once again find a loose soldered connection that I can fix. Cost to me will probably be $00.00. Cost to a customer at an MB dealer would be ~ $350.00 troubleshooting +$1500.00 part + $100.00 Laber to install + $117.00 tax = $2067.00. That is alot of money and it is not ripping the customer off.

Roncallo, I envy your experience and knowledge. The fact is, I can't afford this SL, but it's such a work of art how can I not want it. So, which end of the scale do I grab?

[Roncallo]

Originally Posted by lakelover

Roncallo, I envy your experience and knowledge. The fact is, I can't afford this SL, but it's such a work of art how can I not want it. So, which end of the scale do I grab?

With 180,000 mile it should be under $10K. If the body (My biggest Concern) is good and it runs good and you are willing to learn and work, there is alot of help here for doing some of those $2000.00 jobs like I had mensioned for $0 or near $0. Once you bring the car up to 100% mechanically fit status it will be relatively trouble free and cost effective to own. It will never be as practical as a Honda but it will be ALLOT more satisfying. The gas is the hard part for me right now. Requireing premium fuel and averaging only 16 MPG is expensive. I would say for me, my biggest fear is having to replace the airflow meter $1000.00 for a rebuilt and I have no cheap work arround. Fortunatly mine works very well at the moment. Dont let stuff like having to replace the timing chain scare you. They are good for at least 100K miles and not that hard. As far as the rails are concerned look at some of my past posts but I suggest you buy the pin removal tool.

As far as your fears of expensive service, I am in the same boat as you in that I will be considering an SL600 this winter. They are cheap but not for the faint of heart when it comes to maintenance.

So which end of the scale do you go? I suggest you go the end that gets you the SL.

John Roncallo

John, I'm going to go for it if I can get a reasonable price. I'm not at all familiar with the air flow meter and haven't read about that bit of anxiety. I think I will have the chain and rails inspected before I lay out the cash. Jerry