Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help




Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum > Technical Information and Support > ML, GL, G-Wagen, R-Class, Unimog, Sprinter

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-05-2003, 09:50 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 40
Brake system flush ('99 ML)

Can anyone comment on the adequacy of flushing the brake system without turning on the ignition or running the engine at some point in the process? I am suspecting that with ABS and traction control, it would be best to open as many related solenoids as possible.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-05-2003, 04:26 PM
Ron in SC's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 1,095
I don't believe it's at all necessary to turn on the ignition or run the engine when you bleed the brakes.

On some other makes of cars you do sometimes have to use a scan tool or the like to operate an individual soleinoid to cycle a componet if you mistakenly allow the system to drain and fill with air. I don't know if that's the case with the ML.

I think the main thing is to keep enough fluid in the system while you are bleeding it so it doesn't fill with air.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-05-2003, 08:01 PM
Gilly's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Evansville WI
Posts: 9,616
The valves are all open with the ignition off (or no ABS intervention is taking place). Bleed away!!!

Gilly
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-05-2003, 08:20 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 40
Brake fluid flush

Thank you Ron and Gilly.



Geoff
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-14-2004, 10:32 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Virginia
Posts: 52
ASR & Bleeding Brakes (ML430)

I've searched through the archives and thought that I was ready to flush the brake fluid myself on my ML430. I will be buying a Motive pressure bleeder. Looks like the sequence is RR, LR, RF, LF. But, I read one thread where an ASR equipped vehicle has to have yet another valve opened, I'm a little confused on what this last one is and where it falls in the sequence. Can someone explain if I have to bleed anywhere else besides at the calipers? Thanks. -Norm


Quote:
Originally posted by Ron in SC
I don't believe it's at all necessary to turn on the ignition or run the engine when you bleed the brakes.

On some other makes of cars you do sometimes have to use a scan tool or the like to operate an individual soleinoid to cycle a componet if you mistakenly allow the system to drain and fill with air. I don't know if that's the case with the ML.

I think the main thing is to keep enough fluid in the system while you are bleeding it so it doesn't fill with air.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-15-2004, 09:39 AM
PHAEDRUS242's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Shakedown Street
Posts: 423
I don't believe there is any other fitting that needs to be opened to sucessfully bleed the brakes. I have had some especially spongy pedals that required some serious bleed down to get right though.

I was always under the impression the best way to really bleed the system was to actuate the high pressure return pump through the activations screen under ESP/BAS on the DAS machine. Perhaps Gilly (the man) has further insight into this?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-15-2004, 09:47 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Virginia
Posts: 52
Thanks PHAEDRUS242,

That's what I'm trying to understand, if I should just pay the dealership $120 to do it for me. I have bleed brakes on earlier model cars and must admit I'm a little hesitant with the Mercedes as I do not understand all of the intricacies of ASR and ESP. The last thing I want to do is muck it up and end up paying twice as much for the dealership to correct my mess. Yes, perhap, Gilly can offer up some advice. Thanks. -Norm


Quote:
Originally posted by PHAEDRUS242
I don't believe there is any other fitting that needs to be opened to sucessfully bleed the brakes. I have had some especially spongy pedals that required some serious bleed down to get right though.

I was always under the impression the best way to really bleed the system was to actuate the high pressure return pump through the activations screen under ESP/BAS on the DAS machine. Perhaps Gilly (the man) has further insight into this?

Last edited by nbml430; 06-15-2004 at 11:10 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-15-2004, 11:12 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: sunrise, fl
Posts: 82
I don't know the answer to your question, but alldata shows more labor if ESP equiped. Looks like there are some additional step due to the ESP.

rene
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-15-2004, 11:23 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Virginia
Posts: 52
Thanks Rene - I'm guessing that something else, in addition to the four bleeding screw on the calipers, will need to be bleed. Also, PHAEDRUS242 posted some interesting info like actuating the high pressure return pump via a DAS machine. This is beginning to sound a bit complicated. Thanks again for looking it up in Alldata labor charts. -Norm


Quote:
Originally posted by rrodz
I don't know the answer to your question, but alldata shows more labor if ESP equiped. Looks like there are some additional step due to the ESP.

rene
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-15-2004, 08:17 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 40
Last Fall when I flushed and bled the brake system, I did so after Gilly, in his consistently helpful manner, advised that there would be no problem bleeding with the ignition off (see third post to this thread dated 03 10 05). I ended up with a good firm pedal after running through the bleed circuit twice in order to ensure that all the air was out.

Unless Gilly has learned something different since then, I will do the same thing next time.

Incidentally, this relates to using a pressure bleeder on a '99 320.


Geoff
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-15-2004, 09:42 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Virginia
Posts: 52
Thanks for confirming Geoff. -Norm

Quote:
Originally posted by TBGeoff
Last Fall when I flushed and bled the brake system, I did so after Gilly, in his consistently helpful manner, advised that there would be no problem bleeding with the ignition off (see third post to this thread dated 03 10 05). I ended up with a good firm pedal after running through the bleed circuit twice in order to ensure that all the air was out.

Unless Gilly has learned something different since then, I will do the same thing next time.

Incidentally, this relates to using a pressure bleeder on a '99 320.


Geoff
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-15-2004, 11:13 PM
Gilly's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Evansville WI
Posts: 9,616
Everything will be just fine doing a normal 4 wheel bleed using the previously mentioned order.
Esp doesn't really change anything in relation to bleeding brakes or the hydraulic circuitry, you're mainly throwing more electronics into the ABS system, such as the yaw rate, lateral acceleration sensors, and steering angle sensor, and how the ABS reacts in a sliding/turning manuever, in realtion to keeping the vehicle moving in the intended path. But it doesn't change the bleeding or fluid changing.

Gilly
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-16-2004, 08:16 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Virginia
Posts: 52
Thanks Gilly, really appreciate you confirming all this. I will be using a Motive pressure bleeder, can you tell me how much pressure I should use. I think the Motive website says something like 10-15 lbs. But I have read some posts here that say they got nothing to drain from the back even when using 30lbs of pressure! -Norm

Quote:
Originally posted by Gilly
Everything will be just fine doing a normal 4 wheel bleed using the previously mentioned order.
Esp doesn't really change anything in relation to bleeding brakes or the hydraulic circuitry, you're mainly throwing more electronics into the ABS system, such as the yaw rate, lateral acceleration sensors, and steering angle sensor, and how the ABS reacts in a sliding/turning manuever, in realtion to keeping the vehicle moving in the intended path. But it doesn't change the bleeding or fluid changing.

Gilly
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-16-2004, 11:32 AM
Gilly's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Evansville WI
Posts: 9,616
The one I used to use I didn't really trust the gauge on it(that shows how much air pressure was being used), plus you have to remember it's simply inflating a chamber above the fluid, so I'm not sure that it's a "direct relationship" in the amount of air pressure and the amount of pressure being exerted into the hydraulic system, need a hydraulic engineer i guess to answer that. BUT a kindly word of advice is that nothing would be harmed by starting lower, say 10 to 15lb as you mentioned, and increasing the amount if you get no or low flow. Be sure to start by removing and draining out as much fluid as you can from the reservoir. You probably will never get the reservoir cleaned out of all the old gunk that accumulates in there, don't be TOO anal about it, if you worry about things like this too much, price out a new reservoir and save your anal tendencies for something useful like, I dunno whatever trips your trigger, feeding homeless children or planting trees in your community, something like that! Boy I'm on a roll this morning, aren't I!

Gilly
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-16-2004, 11:44 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Virginia
Posts: 52
LOL thanks Gilly, you made my morning. Yeah, I've been called that before, but will take your advice about the trees in my community. I appreciate the great info and explaination. -Norm

Quote:
Originally posted by Gilly
... don't be TOO anal about it, if you worry about things like this too much, price out a new reservoir and save your anal tendencies for something useful like, I dunno whatever trips your trigger, feeding homeless children or planting trees in your community, something like that! Boy I'm on a roll this morning, aren't I!

Gilly
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2011 Pelican Parts - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page