Tasers are the best we can do with existing technology between a nightstick (any drug-addict high on coke can get over that) and a firearm. If you have better options, I'm sure they'd sell.


I have no problem when cops have tasers- they are still subject to oversight, if not internally than when the citizen's groups take them to task for it. I'd rather a cop "accidently tase" someone than "accidently shoot" someone. Cops have rules about "escalation of force" and I, as a law abiding citizen am glad that they have a step between "beat the subject" and "kill the subject" Other Cincinnati residents can comment on the cops being held responsible for thier actions.

I havent watched this video, I cannot comment on the legitamacy of this guy's actions. It sounds like the woman did not escalate the situation enough to warrant the use of a taser. I am not an expert on the thought process here- perhaps someone has a link or personal training they can share that will clue us in to how escalation of force **should** be used/observed.

If the cop asks you to get out....more than once...just get out- what could she have been doing that was so important ?
-John

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Husband, Father, sometimes friend =)

People getting tased die every year......what if this woman had a pacemaker and it fried it.......that would be even more effective than having shot her.

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Proud owner of ....
1971 280SE W108
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"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

I suppose in that instance she should have complied with the officer's request to exit the vehicle.

thats what they said about Rodney King too...he should have passivly laid there while being beaten with nightsticks...

__________________
Proud owner of ....
1971 280SE W108
1979 300SD W116
1983 300D W123
1975 Ironhead Sportster chopper
1987 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 Diesel
1989 Honda Civic (Heavily modified)
---------------------
Section 609 MVAC Certified
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"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

LMAO

What she should have done is irrelevant. It matters what she did do and what he did. She should have gotten out of the car but she screwed up and didn't. He should have simply given the situation a little time and then gotten the other officer to watch her while he pulled her out of the vehicle and cuffed her but he didn't. He screwed up and he knew it hence the silly attempts to justify his actions at the end of the ordeal. People make thousands of obvious mistakes every day that if given some concentrated thought they would not make. I know this because I spend a great deal of time and thought in designing around it. It requires little insight to pick out obvious mistakes. I always thought it sort of annoying when some idiot who maybe made it through high school would start *****ing about me or one of my friend's inability (lack of interest?) in addition or subtraction when we all had taken (survived?) more advanced math than probably 95% of the population. It is a sort of joke among physicists and astronomers that we have forgotten how to do arithmetic. It is easy to condemn someone for making a dumb mistake but just realize that you make thousands of them every day without realizing it because the impact is negligible. It requires attention and training to avoid mistakes. If computer programmers didn't take this into account no one but an expert could use programs, and if engineers didn't take this into account millions of additional people would die every year. The first thing that people that actually design (rather than work on) any system are forced to deal with is preventing people from either destroying the system or harming themselves. Granted dumb asses make more mistakes than most but everyone (even the designers of the system) make them. Usability and safety are the most important goals of any important endeavor. It never works to believe that people are going to do the correct thing all the time because no one does. So cops receive or should receive training to handle poor decisions on the part of people in a better way than your average civilian. Empathy is I think one of those abilities that only more intelligent creatures have although many of them do not use it (e.g. many animals do not seem to comprehend in any meaningful way that another animal has been killed or died).

I am not familiar with police prodecure for the officers in that jurisdiction. Each municipality or county has policies that the officers must follow for their own safety as well as the safety of the public.

Obviously, there was a serious communication breakdown. But, you just gotta know, that when you fight the cops (right or wrong) you're going to lose. The rest can be sorted out in court, and probably will be.

Do officers overreact? Of course. There was recently a situation at the ATL airport where an Atlanta cop was fired as a result of body-slamming a lady involving her illegally parked car. It was clear that the use of force was inappropriate for the circumstances. There was video on that one back around the holidays I believe.

Perhaps that is what your position is: Inappropriate use of force for the circumstances. IMO, that will be determined by comparing the officer's actions with department policy. I don't pretend to know what their department policy is. I will say this in defense of our men-in-blue. They do receive extensive and ongoing training for many, many types of circumstances.

The main issue I have is that Citizens have duties and responsibilities in interacting with law enforcement as well. It is clear this woman completely scoffed at her own responsibilities. Period.

Just do what the officer asks and you'll be fine. if you treat the officer with the respect they deserve they will give you the same respect in return.

I always wonder why people defy authority just for the hell of it, I know it has something to do with maturity. I also think they have wayyyytoomuch time on their hands, I like to say my yes sir and no sir and get on to the next deal.

Personally I though it was pretty funny to see the smart a$$ squeal like a pig.

Absolutely no arguement there. The lady clearly had some serious pride issues.

I'm a little nervous though with the way law enforcement has jumped on the Taser thing though. Did you catch the story about, what was it, a 12 year old getting tased? And there are a bunch of stories of deaths from tasing -- long run, it's likely to cost society more than it benefits, i.e., lawsuits.

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FYI...their Taser policy was under consideration at the time of the incident:

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/local_news/epaper/2005/06/03/s1a_tasers_0603.html

The less lethal weapon I thought had a lot of promise was the paint ball gun like item with the balls filled with powdered pepper spray, talcum powder like, I understand. Paint balls hurt -- plus the pepper spray, you could incapacitate/seriously discourage someone at a safe distance.

Then came the death of the young lady in Boston after the Sox victory from getting one of those in her eye. Again, mis-use by the officer, shooting at head level into a crowd. Maybe if they could scale the muzzle velocity down a bit and enforce correct usage, who knows.

Mainly, I'm thinking that this or tasers should be just a notch below a firearm, that is aimed and used with great caution, not an easy alternative to a night stick or pepper spray.

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1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

[QUOTE=narwhal]sure but in this case I think the lady was having a low on intelligence coma, therefore she was zapped.

A year or so ago, in San Jose, some Vietnamese woman, about 30, was acting a bit bizarre in her house, shouting and brandishing a kitchen knife. Her family called the cops, they went into the house, she shook the knife at them and they shot and killed her!

There was a huge stink, massive protests by the Vietnamese community at City Hall, police stations -- gallons of ink spilt over it.

They've had bean bag shotgun shells for some time now. Those can be a bit dangerous, a guy who was filming the Free Trade Zone of the Americas meeting in Miami a couple of years back, he supported the pact, was filming it to help prepare a piece about it, got caught up in the melee, was shot in the side of his head with a beanbag, it embedded in his skull, and he was lucky it didn't kill or blind him, doctors said.

I am amazed at how slow police have been to move on this stuff. If the bean bag shell used bagged plastic pellets instead of lead, and had a little less charge, I'm thinking a pump shotgun full of those could just about knock someone over and take the breath out of them with little chance of serious injury. Same with the paint ball/pepper powder guns. At point blank range, you're going to be able to put a few balls into someone's stomach or chest and take the fight out of them pretty well I would think.

Instead, they killed her and had to deal with boatloads of fallout, not to mention the remorse the officer might be haunted with for years. And then there's possible major $$ awards for supposed police negligence.

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1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

Anything, anything designed to incapacitate can kill.

The trick is to make sure that the situation warrants death, even if unintentional.

What do you do in a non-lethal situation of noncompliance from the perp? Make ugly faces? Talk loud?

How much exposure of the police officer to injury or death is okay in order to prevent injury or death of a perp?

I like that.

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