www.talkingpointsmemo.com has a quote from Representative Murtha talking about Cheney: "I like guys who've never been there that criticize us who've been there. I like that. I like guys who got five deferments and never been there and send people to war, and then don't like to hear suggestions about what needs to be done."

I don't know whether Murtha is right about calling for an immediate withdrawal from Iraq, but his military career, legislative record, and sincerity make it hard to write him off. Link: http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?idq=/ff/story/0001/20051117/1835468110.htm&ewp=ewp_news_ireaq&floc=NW_1-T

The draft dodgers in the Bush adminstration might have a hard time smearing this guy.

He is entitled to his opinion, but so are these guys:

http://www.hughhewitt.com/

"As to the Congressman's remarks regarding our Vice President, that is a direct assault on the Constitution of the US which clearly gives the civilians control over the military. You will not meet ONE officer in our Armed Forces who does not believe in this as an article of faith. We have sworn our very lives to its protection. I find it interesting that Cong. Murtha would attack that precept of our governing document. One caller mentioned FDR. What about President Clinton? Was he unqualified to conduct the war in Bosnia due to his contempt for our Armed Forces? NO. He was the president and that makes him the commander in chief, PERIOD. Murtha should be pilloried relentlessly for his seditious remarks and he should never be taken seriously again."

"Congressman Murtha,

PO Box 780
Johnstown, PA 15907-0780

As a U.S. Army veteran of the Vietnam Era and the father of two sons, one a 6 year Army Veteran and the other a 13 year active duty soldier preparing for his 3rd tour in Iraq, I want you to know that I, and they, feel you have abandoned them today. We have great respect for your honorable service but your past service makes it even worse a betrayal of those who fight today!

My oldest son said it best after 9/11 when I told him “well the American people are behind you now”. His response was “yeah Dad….for how long” it didn’t take the Democratic Party very long to abandon them. It took you a little longer but the betrayal is complete. We are winning this war everywhere except at home. You have forgotten what it felt like to be a soldier spit on by your fellow citizens. You join the ranks of those who want to drive military recruiters out of the schools. You sir, should be ashamed."

I'm curious as to the critical comment that Cheney made to which Cngmn. Murtha was replying. Was it criticizing his service as a Marine or as a congressman. Do you have a copy?

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-livin' in the terminally flippant zone

Murtha is not someone to be taken lightly. Korean War Marine vet. He's a hawk. Read his speech this is NOT some light weight.
Look at the WH's response. It's Rove's fingerprints all over it. Problem is the tide is turning. Dirty tricks and smear campaigns won't work now.

I'm sure that Murtha is a bad mammer jammer. However, if we do as he says and leave Iraq now it would be the dumbest move since Chamberlain chatted with Hitler.

I'm sure you'll understand, but I still want to see the remark by Cheney that Murtha is responding to rather than take your "smear won't work" comment. Do you have a copy?

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-livin' in the terminally flippant zone

Ok, here is the link see for yourself. AND, if you get a chance read the congressman's comments re the Speaker of the House and the VPOTUS. http://www.dccc.org/stakeholder/archives/003914.html

Thanks for the quote. The allegations he makes about the war being discredited and an american intelligence failure have been more than discredited. Feel free to peruse the recent thread "WMD, Opinions, facts and lies". For a cogent discussion of these events also look here: http://www.cfr.org/publication.html?id=6861 a bipartisan group. Has a very nice discussion of the "red line" Murtha references and the rest of the "discredited war" argument. It appears that the removal of Hussein was in fact law here in the US, according to the 1998 Iraqi Liberation Act (A quote from Clinton regarding this legislation can be found in my signature). I still haven't gotten a satisfactory answer from anti war people as to how Hussein was to be removed without a war. Perhaps you could give it a try.

Just yesterday I heard a story on the radio, NPR I think, stating that all 4 branches of the service are meeting thier recruitment goals, I'll try to find the link. As for the "9 billion of the 19B allocated..." comment; were not even finished with the first quarter of the fiscal year yet, of course the allocation hasn't been spent, we have another 10 months to do so.

I do wish the Senate and the House would debate the ramifications of pulling out of Iraq immediatly, as Murtha calls for. It's time that there was some intelligent conversation regarding this proposal rather than the political rhetoric that has transpired so far.

I still did not find any comment that Cheney made regarding Murtha on the link you provided. Did I miss it?

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-livin' in the terminally flippant zone

Found it. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/17/politics/17cheney.html?n=Top%2fReference%2fTimes%20Topics%2fPeople%2fC%2fCheney%2c%20Dick

Cheney making comments regarding the false accusations made by the Democrats over the last two years.

Murtha's comments toward Cheney were in reference to:
"Some of the most irresponsible comments have, of course, come from politicians who actually voted in favor of authorizing force against Saddam Hussein," Mr. Cheney told the group, Frontiers of Freedom, at the Mayflower Hotel. "What we're hearing now is some politicians contradicting their own statements and making a play for political advantage in the middle of a war."

It seems clear to me who Cheney was talking about and did not reference Murtha at all.

I think that the Democrats really ought to bring impeachment charges against Bush if this is what they really believe. They won't becuase they know they have no chance of proving it. It is indeed making a play for political advantage. Cheney's a big boy so I'm sure he can take what Murtha has to say.

With regard to what the Bush administration has actually said about Murtha:
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Congress-Iraq.html?oref=login
''Congressman Murtha is a respected veteran and politician who has a record of supporting a strong America,'' said White House press secretary Scott McClellan. ''So it is baffling that he is endorsing the policy positions of Michael Moore and the extreme liberal wing of the Democratic Party.''

''The eve of an historic democratic election in Iraq is not the time to surrender to the terrorists,'' McClellan said. ''After seeing his statement, we remain baffled -- nowhere does he explain how retreating from Iraq makes America safer.''

BTW, login and password for the times site:
samcolt
12345

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-livin' in the terminally flippant zone

Hopefully this is the beginning of the veritable "snowball rolling down the hill.."

BTW...He's not saying NOW , now He's saying 6 months, now.

3 more years of Bush BS is like having mono for 3 years....actually it's like alot worse.

I hope he gets impeached and sent off to Saudi Arabia like that guy on American Dad....

And Cheney; I hope he wins a years free supply of Triple CheeseBurgers from McD's ..draw your own conclusion...Greedy Hawk Pig.

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'87 924S
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Sold ->

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87 Porsche 924S

"..I'll take a simple "C" to "G" and feel brand new about it..."

What does immediatly mean to you?

from the earlier posted link, Murtha's remarks:

"My plan calls:

To immediately redeploy U.S. troops consistent with the safety of U.S. forces. "

__________________
-livin' in the terminally flippant zone

I am glad that Murtha is finally being heard. I have been a supporter of his for quite sometime. My father knows him personally through mutual friends and I have had the chance to meet him more than once. The ****in' guy could be sitting there talking to Jesus himself and if you walk up to him with a comment, question or just to say hello, you are met with a heartfelt handshake. When he talks to you he looks you straight in your eye and makes you feel like a real person.

He is also an intimidating figure at about 6'4" well over 200lbs. Southernstar, stand corrected....He is a decorated VIETNAM vet with a Bronze Star and 2 Purple Hearts. 37 years military experience, he retired about 15 years ago as a Colnel.

Recently one of his topics of speech was about a young man who was wounded in Iraq. The soldier in question had both his hands blown off. He later learned that he would NOT be getting a Purple Heart for his wounds because they were caused by friendly fire. You could actually see Murtha's eyes begin to well up with tears. He then said he was going to see to it that the soldier got his Purple Heart and that if he was rejected he would give him one of his very own!

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Well he seems sincere enough, but he's proposing a huge leap of faith saying the US should pull out and Iraq should fend for itself. I don't see the connection between puilling out of Iraq, and making the world a safer place. We weren't in Iraq on 9/11.

He uses the term "redeploy" meaning maybe troops could be stationed in Kuwait or Egypt, and then can move in when they are needed. I don't think that will quiet the insurgency. They have a problem with the infidels existing anywhere in the mideast.

I think he needs to acknowledge that the rules of engagement have changed since his time in the military. This isn't an enemy with a big army and firepower. It's a secretive, crafty network that preys on our institutions of openness and fairness, while exploiting advanced, mostly Western-developed technology, in detrimental ways.

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1985 380SE Blue/Blue - 230,000 miles
2012 Subaru Forester 5-speed
2005 Toyota Sienna
2004 Chrysler Sebring convertible
1999 Toyota Tacoma

Funny how the peaceniks never learn from the past....

Pulling a repeat of vietnam by leaving in the middle of it will serve what purpose...and be good for who exactly.......


Answer is its exactly what the Islamonuts want....its obvious to anyone with half a brain. I wonder who paid this guy Murtha to dream that one up?

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Proud owner of ....
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"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

I don't understand this comment. Murtha expressed his disdain for Dick Cheney. How is that an assault on our Constitution?With all due respect to the author of this letter, how in the hell does he know what Murtha has forgotten?

My reaction to Murtha is two-fold. My immediate reaction was that his proposal sounds like a recipe for disaster. On the other hand, when someone of his stature speaks, I listen. It doesn't mean we all need to bow down to Murtha, but I don't see any grounds for the personal attacks leveled by the authors of the two letters you post. I don't fault either man. I just disagree.

As for Murtha's comment about Cheney, I didn't understand him to be responding to any specific comment that Cheney made. He is just disgusted by the man, as are many Americans. Maybe Murtha should rise above his personal feelings for Cheney, but under the circumstances, we should cut his some slack, IMHO.

Murtha is a peacenik? That's a stretch.

I didn't mean to say that Cheney smeared Murtha. I was referring to the White House's standard operating procedure of attacking critics. I would bet good money that the White House is working on some type of personal attack against Murtha, but they probably won't use it for fear of it backfiring.