My weak attempt at humor--I was saying don't make your response dirty:D Sorry--after happy hour my jokes seem to be funnier to me than anyone else. I just don't understand how we can justify all of this stuff in the middle east in the name of being evangelical democracy spreaders when we endorse and sponsor Israels 'theocracy.'

Check your pm for some snapper pics in a little while......;) Edit--gonna have to get some help smalling down the pics (great trip last october week before the season closed) but will send soon.

I still vividly recall images of Muslims and Arabs dancing out on the streets celebrating the destruction of the WTC.

I did not see any Jews or Israelites joyfully dancing over the death of nearly 3,000 Ameircans.

Last time I checked, Jews don't call us infidels. And last time I checked, the state of Israel does not sponsor anti-American terrorism.

Is there are any question who our enemies are?

I'm not talking about training swaps, international peace keepers or the $500M secret ammo dump--can we fly over Israel and land military planes there to use however we see fit is the question? Jesse Helms once called Israel the US's largest aircraft carrier--I can't find proof.

No
 

we cannot fly liberaly over Israeli airspace, they hold that extremely dear. We have had US military jets targeted by the IDF upon aproach to bases, but none thankfully have been shot down. Airspace is very sensative to Israel, and its airforce is very adept to keeping it that way.

Strangely enough regarding airspace freedoms, Israel is offered more rights within the US than the other way around, including commercial aircraft, El Al has tarmac rights-policies more like Airforce 1 than any other commercial lines including our own. :confused:

It's an interesting question. I think that modern day Israel is very far from the theocratic model; at least no more theocratic than Norway or the UK. We have relations with Saudi Arabia, the Vatican, Norway and GB. All are theocracies from relative points of view.

I know that Israel lands it's planes on our soil and tests it's equipment here. In a sense we do the same, except Israel is pulling the trigger. I don't see why we couldn't land in Israel. I can think of reasons why we wouldn't want to.

When I was there US planes refueled, Ships came into port and the "camp" that i lived in have more naturalized American service members than El Paso TX. I was on a training rotation while most 82nd troops serve at least 6 months with the MFO.

So yes to yor question.

They'd probably let us land there if we were out of gas and gonna crash one of their future F-16's;)

I appreciate your comments and share your curiosity....

During the administration of President Ronald Reagan, the United States-Israeli relationship was significantly upgraded, with Israel becoming a strategic partner and de facto ally. A number of bilateral arrangements solidified this special relationship. In November 1983, the United States and Israel established a Joint Political-Military Group to coordinate military exercises and security planning between the two countries, as well as to position United States military equipment in Israel for use by American forces in the event of a crisis. In 1984 Israel and the United States concluded the United States-Israel Free Trade Area Agreement to provide tariff-free access to American and Israeli goods. In 1985 the two countries established a Joint Economic Development Group to help Israel solve its economic problems; in 1986 they created a Joint Security Assistance Group to discuss aid issues. Also in 1986, Israel began participating in research and development programs relating to the United States Strategic Defense Initiative. In January 1987, the United States designated Israel a major non-NATO ally, with status similar to that of Australia and Japan. Two months later, Israel agreed to the construction of a Voice of America relay transmitter on its soil to broadcast programs to the Soviet Union. In December 1987, Israel signed a memorandum of understanding allowing it to bid on United States defense contracts on the same basis as NATO countries. Finally, the two countries signed a memorandum of agreement in April 1988 formalizing existing arrangements for mutually beneficial United States-Israel technology transfers.

If I say that I'm not surprised to hear that -- does that make me an anti-semite?

My first cousin, who was an instructor at White Sands (then retired at Homestead) and got called out of American's school in Houston after retirement to fly F-16s patrolling the Turkish border two years ago said that landing in Israel is the scarier than a flying a sortie in Desert Storm.

Oh, I think we could do more than that if we worked it out ahead of time. For the reasons 87TD outlined I'd want to make sure they knew we were coming and they knew it was us.

I had already read the Wikipedia stuff before I posed the question......:P

We give a lot in return for a little.

We do give too much I do agree with that, but whether it scares the pilots or not we can and do fly over, land, refuel and keep troops on the ground.




U.S. Deploys Troops to Israel in Preparation of War with Iraq
(January 14, 2003)
by Beth Weiss
An American liaison team deployed to Tel Aviv this weekend is responsible for coordinating efforts and intelligence between the Pentagon, the IDF, and American forces. Major General Charles Simpson is the chief liaison officer for the U.S. Army and he will meet with IDF Chief of Staff Moshe Ya'alon soon to arrange for the details of this joint project.

A joint air force exercise, the Juniper Cobra, will take place this week between Israeli and the American Patriot artillery in the Negev and radar units from the U.S. Sixth Fleet. Noble Dina, an anti-submarine warfare exercise, will be executed with the combined efforts of the Israel Navy and the Sixth Fleet.

Although all of these exercises were planned in advance of the expected war in Iraq, the exercises will help prepare the two countries' militaries for warfare. A senior Israeli defense source quoted in Haaretz said that the exercises "raise the level of preparedness to that of a possible transition from exercise to operational situation. It's good for the Americans, and good for us as well."

American soldiers arrived in Israel to also work with anti-missile defenses, both the U.S.-made Patriot and the Arrow, developed by both Israel and the U.S. On January 15, Israel moved to a higher than usual state of alert, codenamed "Red Hail." According to an advisor to Ariel Sharon, Zalman Shoval, this alert was planned before the looming war in Iraq was close and does not mean that Israel has inside information on when a U.S. attack will be.

In addition, the U.S. sailed an aircraft carrier, the Harry Truman, into the Mediterranean Sea. The aircraft should allow U.S. planes to reach Iraqi targets by flying over Israeli and Jordanian territory. Israel has permitted the use of its air zones but Jordan has yet to grant the U.S. permission to fly over its territory..

U.S. military units will stay in Israel until the end of a war with Iraq.

Israel's civilian preparedness for war includes the distribution of gas masks and TV and radio instructions on what to do in the event of a chemical or biological attack.

I don't think that posted above illustrates that we have a liberal leash with our strong ally regarding planes landing in Israel or using Israeli airspace. I have met some Israeli troops that went through Benning and also know two guys that went over there to train and acknowledge that goes on--but it isn't a smiley, reciprocal deal regarding our use of their airspace and has met with some controversy.

I'm leaning to believing it was no accident. Anan points out that the post had been frantically calling Israeli officials for hours, saying that they were taking near-hits from artillery. It's been a UN post for what, 40-50 years?

The Israelis are outta control.