What's up with Israel attacking everybody?
 

Well, they first started with an attack on Palestine and now they are destroying Lebanon. How come these countries don't have armies to defend themselves? Can someone enlighten me on this topic, it's getting a bit interesting in the Middle East so I might as well get some info from you guys. I don't know how you guys feel about this topic but I'm on Israel's side (I'm not Jewish either) because I'm not too fond of terrorists that come out of those other countries.

Some questions that I need answered:
Has Israel done this before?
Will they attack more countries?
How come the countries that are being attacked don't have allies nor armies?

Thanks

For starters, Palestine is not a country. Palestine refers to an overall geogrpahic area that is now divided between Israel, Egypt, Syria and Jordan.

It started when a daddy had a child with his wife and another woman on the side. The wife forced the husband to kick the other woman out and bastard out. It's been down hill ever since.

Bot

Its the Holy Land and everyone wants it for their own. Arabs far outnumber the Jews, but Israel has greater fire power. If the Arabs consolidate and develop/obtain advanced weaponry, look out.

I beg your pardon, but back in the 70's Isreal fought and won a war in 7 days. That was after they let the women join. Who they were fighting escapes my brain, the housekeeper hasn't been in to dust in awhile.

It's a tough one all right. The Jews responses are apparently geared to teaching the other side a lesson, and vicey versa. No one pays attention to the "lesson" for a second. Instead, they ratchet up their outrage.

I've heard Arabs on the radio say that many of the Palestinian youth that Israel holds in jail have no blood on their hands. Arriving at the truth of that would be damn near impossible.

The inescapable bottom line for me is that the region has way more people now than it can support. The Dead Sea is drying up because of all the irrigation water pulled out upstream. With it will go massive tourist dollars.

Unemployment in Arab lands is way high. Most of the Arabs evolved from years of tribal fighting in harsh conditions. I suspect "forged in a fiery furnace" is not inaccurate.

I think I'll be looking at roughly the same stuff while on my deathbed.

Use the search function and read the other 10K threads on the subject for more.......

That'd be a fun way to spend an afternoon, eh?

Israel attacks people after being provoked. From what I understand about the Lebanese invasion is that a terrorist group, not HAMAS, but the other big one over there kidnapped two Israeli soldiers then fled to Lebanon. I believe the terrorist group has strong power in the government or there is some connection between the terrorist group and the Lebanese.

The reason everyone attacks Israel is because they are Jewish and the so called Palestinians believe that the only good Jew is a dead Jew, thus the reason they go into cafes and blow up innocent civilians. The extremist Muslims believe that Israel should be destroyed at all costs, that is why the Muslim countries have attacked Israel several times.

That is a very brief and round-about lesson in Israeli-Middle Eastern relations.

Thanks
David

Oh Bot, you and your obscure Biblical references.

Everything was just honkey-dorey until Hamas kidnapped an Israeli soldier...then Hezbollah (sp?) just had to get into the act.

Neithr Hamas nor Hez appears to give a damn about what happenes to the innocent civilians that have to live where they (H&H) hide. It is almost as if they somehow like it when Israel unleashes all mighty hell on them.

Don't want to get your ass kicked by Israel?

Then leave the Jews alone.

After what happened in WWII, no Jew is ever going to let another nation, or group of people, kill Jews with impunity.

Incidentally, and to no one's surprise, the anti-Semitic Russian and French governments came out attacking Israel. The more things change, the more they remain the same. Damn the French and Russian bastards!!!

Exactly...and they attack us (the US) because we support Israel. To them we are all the same.

I worked with a lawyer for a while. She had dual citizenship and had served in the Israeli Army.

She was one tough cookie.

The Seven Day War...Egypt, Syria, Jordan and the rest of the usual suspects ganged up on Israel.

They got their ass kicked for their troubles...and Israel showed the superiority of American made weapons over the Russian and French made garbage the other guys were using.

Do you (I should say when) think the US will get involved and how does Iran figure into the equasion? Any enlightenment is appreciated.

Bush has too many things on his plate. I doubt thatt he US will get actively involved...maybe some behind the scenes diplomacy.

I read a news report that the two Israeli soldiers were being transported to Iran for "safekeeping"

Hitler Jr. (aka the Iranian "president") would love nothing better than to: a. hold Jewish prisioners and b. provoke Israel into all-out war.

Muchas Gracias por la lession El Capitan... Now Bush and diplomacy don't belong in the same sentence and how long is it before those two prisoners end up dead in Iran and then the real fight is on. this is gonna be one big mess WW3...

Sid

De nada.

What? You don't think Bush is channeling Teddy Roosevelt? Speak softly and carry a big stick. Or in Bush's case speak mangledly and carry a big stick. :eek:

The soldiers are worth a lot more alive than dead. If one of the them is harmed, watch out!

Jews are fierce about protecting their people, but they are also good at negotiating...a deal will be brokered so that all sides will save face. Although Israel can kick ass, the cost of warfare is still pretty high. Even Israelis are getting tired of all the fighting. I would too if I lived in Israel.

I agree.

Israel is the top recipient of US financial and millitary aid, receiving upwards of $3 billion annually = we're involved already.

I long to visit the Cliffs at Petra, take a camel ride around the pyramids of Egypt but this Jew girl ain't going anywhere till this fighting is done. Maybe on my 90th birthdya eigh? Thanks for the history lesson all you guys are great and your insight into these matters is very enlightening, better than any class i ever took!

<reads and says nothing>

:cool:

I just heard on the news that the rocket, scratch that..., missile that hit Haiffa (sp?) was launched from Lebanon by some Iranian revolutionary forces. I also heard something on the news that Iran is tied into this conflict in other ways as well. This is not looking good for us infidels.

Thanks
David

That's why it has it's own acronym, GWOT. A major problem therein is that many people in this country refuse to acknowledge that we are, in fact, involved in a war. It is the clash between two radically different world view points. Fuedelisms last hurrah on one side and freedom on the other. Instead we listen to ad nauseum commentary about how "Palestine" and other (actual) middle eastern countries are just defending themselves and just want to get along. Not to mention the endless blather regarding "american imperialism", everything being "our fault to begin with" and of course the ever popular slang phrase for a hairpiece which is now banned in this forum.

Here is a good quote from a recent movie:

"100 years ago you people were living in tents and killing eachother, 100 years from now you will be doing the same"

Once the oil runs out this problem will be solved.

It took the Europeans thousands of years of killing eachother before they gave up, Isreal and the rest of the Middle East will probably be going at it 50 or 100 years from now.

I feel that is a bit too simplistic for my taste. The statement seems to imply that we, the supposed good guys in this story, are as pure as the driven snow, of pure heart and soul, seeking only to improve the world. The bad guys on the other hand are just plain evil to the core, have no reason to be angry … blah blah blah.

I do not buy that, at least not entirely. There are repercussions for any actions taken. We supported the Shaw of Iran with weapons and intelligence, he pissed off his populace to the degree that they ran him out of town and now people are angry at us. We did the same thing in Cuba, Chile and numerous other countries. Israel was selling arm to Pretoria and there may one day be a back lash based on that. We are by no means completely innocent and the bad guys are not completely bad.

Are we in a war? Maybe we are. If we are, it is not a war that will be won on any battle front. There is none. This is like a computer virus that infects an entire network. You can bomb all the countries you want and it may or may not set the ‘movement’ back a bit but, in my opinion, it will not die. In order to kill it, you would have to be willing to sacrifice your self as well. Like wiping a hard drive clean and starting over. The only way I see this ending is by people sitting down and talking. Egypt and Israel sat down, came to an agreement and there has been no (as far as I know) conflict between the two for over 20 years. Not everyone will sit down but if enough do, those who do not will be left out in the cold with no representation. Then again, maybe all the talking and all the bombs in the world will not solve the problem and wiping the hard drive is all we can hope for. I shudder at the thought of seeing a mushroom cloud rising over Damascus or Teheran but perhaps that is what it will take. I hope that is not how it ends up for all our sakes.

I do not think the fate of the solders will have much of a bearing on how things unfold. IMO, the deciding factor will be the reactions of Iran and Syria. If Syria sneezes the wrong way then there will be a problem. Iran is stupid but I don’t think they really want to push this too far. So far they have talked a good game but I do not think they are prepared to back up their words, at least not yet. I have always felt the solders were already dead anyway. They may be breathing, but they are dead.

This couldn't have been better written if I had written it myself.

Your comment about "feudalism's last hurrah" is right on target. If the enemies of Israel (and by default our enemies) have their way, they will drag moderm civilization back to the Dark Ages.

I have no problem with people wanting to live in a feudalistic, Dark Ages world. But go rot in your own world and leave the rest of the civilized world alone!

There will always be people (just read what some have written in this thread and elsewhere on this board) who will blame the US, will blame Western Europe, will blame the Jews, will blame everyone else BUT the real culprits. Israel has gone out of its way to try to help Palestinians (remember that NO Arab country wants the Palestinians in their midsts). Likewise the US provides tons of financial aid to Palestinia. What does Israel and the US get in return for their generosity: more and more and more terrorists attacks.

I am with you Peragro, I get so tired of reading the garbage that passes for "reasoned opinion" that seeks to blame Israel, the US, Europe, the Man on the Moon, et al. and fails to focus on the real wrongdoers. People seem to forget that Jews were, and still are, being persecuted all over the world, just for being Jews. People also tend to conveniently forget that Jews were, and still are, at the forefront of the civil rights movement in this country. I do not recall any Arabs or Palestinians going to the South, in the 50s and 60s to help out in the fight for civil rights. Israel is surrounded by countries populated by people and governments that have only one goal: the destruction of Israel and the extermination of all Jews (just read what the Iranian dictator has been saying for the past few years). Israel has every right to defend itself by all necessary means.

Hattie also has it right when he talks about the fact that these people have power only because they sit on top of large oil reserves. Were it not for their oil they would just be camel herders.

We need to end our dependence on foreign oil. We need to find and use alternative fuels. In the 20s, Germany found ways to convert coal into oil. That technology has been around since the 1920s. We sit atop the world's largest coal reserves, so it is high time we use what we have. We also need to find ways to use nuclear energy. We must do whatever it takes, along with conservation, to lessen our obscene dependence on oil from unstable, criminal and abusive foreign governments.

I just want to be able one day to flip these people off and tell them to shove their oil up their a@@ and then set it on fire....

it is not WWIII until the press calls it that.. the second world war was not in fact called WWII at the time.. it was called that in the history books if i recall correctly.


looking at pics on cnn.com i can clearly make out a W124 in one pic of lebanese people fleeing to the border... make way for the mercedes benz!

There are plenty of times I think the Jews should just deal out death to those uncivilized hoards and push their borders outwards and quadruple their territory. Then I consider that Jewish and Western involvement in the middle east occurred because we inserted ourselves into the region. How many Ay-rabs were venturing into Europe or the U.S. between 1900 and 1948? Damn few. And none of them were acting like they were the new landlords or overseers of precious resources.

My good experiences ratio with Jews vs. Arabs is about 95/5. Still, I worry that the ultimate right is not completely on our side. In such cases, it's hard to win, methinks.

Why is it ok to say "Ay-Rabs" but not ok to say "Merkins"?

Maybe he's Eye-talian?

B

It's not really OK. I do it mostly as sarcasm aimed at those who look down their nose at Arabs. Doesn't make a lot of sense, I'll grant you.

Actually, I'm primarily Scanda-hoovian.

Global War Of Terror?

I just don't give a damn anymore.

I'm over it.

People in the Middle East... Arabs and Jews alike... have been abusing and killing one another for centuries, and most of them have rejected every attempt that has ever been made (whether by diplomacy, economic aid, or by force...) to help them out of their self-induced, primitive rut.

I am starting to believe that they are simply incapable of overcoming their irrational hatred and religious prejudices.

I give up.

I say we stay home and leave them to their own devices. Maybe they'll eventually kill each other off, and then our descendants won't have to worry about any of this crap anymore.

I'm fed up with the whole lot of them.

Mike

Agreed. It's like Yugoslavia with oil. If it wasn't for the dino-juice, we'd be content (and justified) to put up a barbed wire fence around the region, let them kill each other, and care about it as much as we do (as a nation) about sub-Saharan Africa, that is to say, not much.

It should get ugly in a few days, i.e. a major Israeli ground invasion starting early next week. If Chirac and the Pope (the former Hitler Youth member) think the last couple of days have been disproportionate and deplorable, that should send them apoplectic. I'm guessing GD won't be too happy either. :rolleyes:

If all hell does break loose it could really get interesting.

Also, if/When India and Pakistan decide it is time for them too to "end" thousands of years of hostilities. Which seems to be flaring up at the same time. There will be plenty of parking after they send the donkeys over with nukes on their backs.

All we really need are the catholics and the protestants to start setting each other alight.

And the Mongol hordes to storm China.....

I would almost agree, except outsiders thrust them into the randomly carved up nations that exist now, in which they have no real roots or allegience. All most of them have is their religion and the associated intolerance and hatred. And thats all they will ever have until they pull their heads out of the proverbial sand. I feel sorry for them but at a certain point you have to ask what else can possibly be done. Someone will have to move away, and by sheer headcount, Israel is the candidate. If only they can drop their irrational attachment to a plot of land and set up a new existence somewhere in the Americas, or Russia or wherever.

There was a show on the other night about how Arab grade school books have toned down their anti-western message. They still say that Jews and Christians are the enemy and must be killed. I hate to see what they said before. So it looks like we have at least another generation of this to look forward to, unless something very big happens.

me too. there are enough problems here in america that need addressing now and i am tired of all our attention going to the middle east, for crying out loud those people have been fighting since they picked their knuckles up off the ground.

The US needs Iran now to allow peace in Iraq and come to agreement with the world about nukes. I would guess this lil war is great fodder for barter... in someones mind...

As to why this would be; they certainly won't be giving up any of those details to us saps. I have heard that Syria and Iran have worked quite closely in the past though.

Besides which the Iranian's will have to go balls to the wall... if they want to try and tangle with Isreal with 150,000 US troops to pass on the way to the fight...

Psssssst, it's the oil.

The USA got over the holocaust guilt about 30 years ago. we've been using the holocaust guilt thingy since then as cover for the real reason we keep an oar in the water: Our national survival (and the survival of modern society) depends on the availability of oil.

B

The problem is what will an Isreal invasion accomplish? They need to think carefully, and really rachet up the pressure if they do.

For example notice that lack of problems the Germans had during WW2 with occupied territories...sure they had some but not many. The stakes need to be increased, would young men be so willing to blow themselves up if they new their village would be bulldozed and its inhabitents arressted?

These people have been offered so many peace deals, they just are hell bent on killing Jews. While Isreal has the power they need use it.

From the other perspective.
If Iraq breaks into three parts... and Iran's sphere of geo politica influnce is southern shia... whose sphere is northern central sunnia? An Isreali incursion into Lebanon taken to its fruition leads through Damascus to Tehran. The two primary backers of Palestine terror.

Aside from that possibility what does Iran have to fear?

A US program of regime change is looking almost laughable at this point. And the use of nukes by anyone affiliated with a nation seems improbable at best.

Perhaps if there were a wolf howling at Iran's window they might see the benifit of working with the international community.

Maybe this wolf will do....

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols2/israeli_tank.jpg

Ok, so yet again we have thread that is a few pages long where the original poster throws some fat into the fire and then sits back quietly, gleaning information. For what purpose? I don't know. I just see a pattern.

Why do you hate America?

Seriously, I really doubt that Cheney et. al. believed that crap about being welcomed as liberators, etc. -- that was public consumption cover for the real purpose which is proceding apace: the establishment of the framework of power to dominate Iraq from now on. We have an embassy compound underway bigger than Vatican City, and many permanent bases being hardened.

I mean it was preposterous: thinking that after randomly dropping "smart" bombs and wiping out many young men who foolishly but patriotically served in Saddam's armies - every one with a family mourning their death - we could announce that we were there to help them into a better life and we're sure sorry about all the mayhem that just went down.

Having said that, my bearings are under major assault in my own head. Maybe the only solution is to bludgeon hell out of Syria, Iran, and the whack jobs in Iraq and Lebanon. They don't get major ingredients of civility in a big way. There are potential down-sides to that, however. China, our financier, has ties with Iran it values. Likewise for the other superpower, in aimed nukes anyway, Russia, who we've been tweeking and insulting for a while now. For an interesting take on that see thread here.

I can't believe this crap is still going on....I actually have a friend from Rutgers U. that went back to Lebanon for the entire summer. :eek:

Here's a bizarre side to the story. Iran supports Hezbollah and hates Israel. We support Israel, and are none too fond of Iran. China is keeping our national budget afloat and they want to cultivate Iran's friendship and patronage cause they need oil as bad as we do.

Kind of a vicious cycle.

I guess we better do what China says, huh? Seeing as how they own us now and all:rolleyes:

Golly, I said that? Dude-uh-mers, you be in denial all the time, it seems, and not the river in Egypt. Imagine if the oil market -- OPEC for starters -- suddenly starting trading in the Chinese currency (what the hell is it again?)? Mucho mas problems for us.

OK wise man, when do you forsee us NOT being dependent on regular infusions of cash from China? And what do you think would happen if they decided we were no longer a good investment and decided to call in their notes??

I am wondering whether Israel will attack Syria next or will they hold off the attack.

not really worried about it. China trades and steals quite a bit from us with regard to technology, makes them quite reliant on us.