Remember today 12/7/1941... - Page 13 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Botnst · #**181** 12-13-2006, 09:55 AM

The history and natural history of humans is the same as for any animal: Breed and colonize or die unto extinction. Humans, apparently unique on Earth, are capable of recording history and projecting destiny, however imperfectly. We also are capable of an array of emotions that is also the broadest among animals, as far as can be deduced at present.

From these imperatives of biology and culture we evolve rules of morality that guide our interpersonal behavior within our family, clan, and tribe. But he have never developed a moral code that scales-up to large populations or geographical areas. The morals and taboos of family, clan, and tribe life simply do not scale effectively and as a result, the different moralities of various tribes and nations usually do not map 1:1 against each other. For example, "our" tribal warrior code, Chivalry, differs somewhat from western country to western country but mapped poorly against Japan's Bushido. We found their behavior at war incomprehensible and savage. They viewed ours as incomprehensible and cowardly. But we won and so, chivalry, encoded in the Geneva Conventions, is the international standard of behavior for warfare.

It is in direct conflict with Islam.

B

aklim · #**182** 12-13-2006, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

The history and natural history of humans is the same as for any animal: Breed and colonize or die unto extinction. Humans, apparently unique on Earth, are capable of recording history and projecting destiny, however imperfectly. We also are capable of an array of emotions that is also the broadest among animals, as far as can be deduced at present.

From these imperatives of biology and culture we evolve rules of morality that guide our interpersonal behavior within our family, clan, and tribe. But he have never developed a moral code that scales-up to large populations or geographical areas. The morals and taboos of family, clan, and tribe life simply do not scale effectively and as a result, the different moralities of various tribes and nations usually do not map 1:1 against each other. For example, "our" tribal warrior code, Chivalry, differs somewhat from western country to western country but mapped poorly against Japan's Bushido. We found their behavior at war incomprehensible and savage. They viewed ours as incomprehensible and cowardly. But we won and so, chivalry, encoded in the Geneva Conventions, is the international standard of behavior for warfare.

It is in direct conflict with Islam.

B

The GC is also a standard nobody else seems to adhere to but a few. They then get surprise when others don't do it but they insist that it has to be adhered to. Problem is there i no referee in international conflicts to give a 20 yard unsportsmanlike penalty. There is only "victor's justice" when they win.

aklim · #**183** 12-13-2006, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dacia

True, human history is about conquest, but I never claimed that my people were the lightning rod for humanity.
Americans on the other hand:
“All too often, politicians rally their audience with inflated claims of American greatness. The United States is "the greatest country in the world." At other times, it is "the greatest country ever," "the greatest country ever conceived," or "the greatest country in the history of mankind." When the exuberance soars, America also "kicks ass!"
Nearly as often, one hears of the United States as the great Samaritan: second to none at 'civilizing' half-breed races. In the words of Abraham Lincoln, the United States is the "the last best hope of mankind," no less. More frequently, it is "the shining beacon on the hill." Recently, John Kerry, Democratic Presidential candidate, roused students at UCLA, "I believe we can bring a real victory in the War on Terror. I believe we must, not only for ourselves but for all who look to America as the last best hope of earth."

Oh, see, there is your mistake. You take the words of a politician seriously. Their job is to tell everyone that life is good, we are doing good, etc, etc. Sorta like a cheerleader. Know what? I have heard political speeches in other countries at ralies too. While the words are different, the intent seems to be the same thing. Oh, they might say "We are not the world's (insert adjective here) we are actually doing very well compared to those who are and it won't be long before we catch up to them and......" Well, you get the picture.

PaulC · #**184** 12-13-2006, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dacia

The author makes an awful lot of assertions, seems to have some serious issues with Continental Europe, failed to mention the UK and its Royal family as the antidote to democracy even once in his tirade (but of course he is British). I am not sure where gets his information from, there are many countries in Continental Europe (30, some of which actually invented democracy), and a lot more intellectuals, speaking as many if not more languages. I find it somewhat difficult to see how they all would speak with a unified voice when it comes to the US.
He finds the US’ system glorious for its just, honest and inclusionary (is that a word) ways yet, if my recollection is correct, on this very board there were accusation of vote fixing, coercion and outright fraud with the voting machines during the most recent election, and the leader may not have been elected as the will of the majority. Mentioning Bush was a particularly bad example, it has been shown (by Bush, himself no less) many times he is a near imbecile, especially when compared to some of the previous presidents.
It is also known that televised debates make or break an incumbent’s aspiration, for some of the viewers care more about style than substance. Rather shallow, but then again, “nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public”.
The same may apply to other countries, it is just the author is sure that democracy is flawless in the States. As to the spiritual interest, religious worship (as if was something to be proud of in the 21st century), creeds and morality he should have read a few statistics before going on a diatribe. Enron, WorldCom, Exxon Valdez, Bhopal, television evangelism, murder/rape/robbery etc. rate, crime infested inner cities, racism against blacks and Mexicans, the list is long. The popular criticism the US is receiving in Europe is for its foreign policy and its chest beating, loudmouth propaganda.

Interesting how a black civil right activist fighting against white racism in America ended up to be white America’s icon in changing “itself”. I guess some of the black readers here would disagree with you on that claim. She inspired not all Americans but black Americans to fight for their rights. If it were up to mainstream America, the status quo would have been just fine. The fight wasn’t “primarily” peaceful either, there were race riots for years, King was shot. Yes, her name was ParkS.
Had she lived in my birthplace in 1955 she would have been an ordinary member of society for there has never been slavery there, no Klux-Klux-Klan, no cross burning and/or lynching.
As to comparing her circumstances to that of an average Eastern European (this term is rather misleading, it is a geopolitical invention, the Iron Curtain divided Central Europe and West Europe) shows how little you know about that era. You are making a fool of yourself in your lame attempt to belittle her work.

Well, let's start at the end of this diatribe and work our way backward: There has been no attempt to belittle Ms. Park's work by me or anyone else on this thread, excepting you. You have an unfortunate habit of misdefining an argument and then belitting those who you claim to be its author. I'm thrilled to learn that your community has been free of cross burning, lynching, slavery, decaffeinated coffee, or whatever falliability or vice that you claim for America. This (still undefined or identified area, why?) sounds idyllic. Why aren't you still there?

Yes, there was rioting in America stemming from racial supression, particularly during the early 1960's, but it wasn't the unending stream of havoc and mass bloodletting that the term "race riots for years" was clearly meant to convey. Yes, Martin Luther King was murdered. Being a leading force in asserting social or cultural change is a hazardous endeavor in America and most any other country. Try to recall a bit of recent world history on this point. Or go back a few generations and recall that the presentation of a perfectly good play at Ford's Theater in Washington D.C. was spoiled by a gunshot.

You have piqued my curiosity on one point, and I would appreciate a frank and on-point response: Are you convinced that to be white and an American is essentially to be a racist? You seem to paint America with as broad a brush as you have indicated America paints the remainder of the world, and I am interested in your perspective as someone who is (apparently) not an American citizen.

Quote:

I never claimed that other governments and/or countries are free of problems, but the most obnoxious yelling and screaming coming from your corner, as if it was your god given right to lecture others about the infallibility of the “truth, justice and the American way”.

I merely asked you to showcase a culture or government that we should emulate. You appear to be unable to do so, or even to acknowledge that the United States or its citizens possess one single positive quality. Why?

Quote:

Dacia was the name of a Roman province, approximately the area in which today’s Romania is located. Incidentally, it is also the name of the car I owned when I lived in Austria (it was a Renault 12 essentially, manufactured under license).

A wonderful car, as many Renault vehicles have been. I once considered purchasing a Renault 12 during my teen years, but yearned for something safer and with a touch more refinement and purchased a Lawn Boy instead.

Quote:

True, human history is about conquest, but I never claimed that my people were the lightning rod for humanity.
Americans on the other hand:
“All too often, politicians rally their audience with inflated claims of American greatness. The United States is "the greatest country in the world." At other times, it is "the greatest country ever," "the greatest country ever conceived," or "the greatest country in the history of mankind." When the exuberance soars, America also "kicks ass!"
Nearly as often, one hears of the United States as the great Samaritan: second to none at 'civilizing' half-breed races. In the words of Abraham Lincoln, the United States is the "the last best hope of mankind," no less. More frequently, it is "the shining beacon on the hill." Recently, John Kerry, Democratic Presidential candidate, roused students at UCLA, "I believe we can bring a real victory in the War on Terror. I believe we must, not only for ourselves but for all who look to America as the last best hope of earth." I have to wonder if the Vietnamese civilians killed by Kerry and his crew also looked upon them as "the last best hope of earth."”
http://www.counterpunch.org/alam03232004.html

Sharply critical of the U.S. isn't it? How can the U.S. government allow such subversive babble to be published here and read by its citizens and anyone else in the world? Oh, right, that pesky constitution of ours. I envy the government in certain other countries, where the authors of such a document would be either shot, jailed or forced to drive expatriate French sedans.

Quote:

English does not differentiate between singular "you" and plural “you", sometimes it is cumbersome to make the distinction. In that comment the plural “you” was meant to be used.

I can barely type this sentence, so tear-streaked my eyes are over your extravagent and emotive apology.

#**185** 12-13-2006, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dacia

The author makes an awful lot of assertions,

Alex

AND YOU DON'T???

Please go away,. Your diatribes are tiring.

Botnst · #**186** 12-13-2006, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

The GC is also a standard nobody else seems to adhere to but a few. They then get surprise when others don't do it but they insist that it has to be adhered to. Problem is there i no referee in international conflicts to give a 20 yard unsportsmanlike penalty. There is only "victor's justice" when they win.

Hence the fallacy of "international law."

PaulC · #**187** 12-13-2006, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrhills0146

AND YOU DON'T???

Please go away, or just go sod off. Your diatribes are tiring.

No, that's not right. He is simply expressing his opinion on a few issues. Not an opinion that we apparently share, but nothing wrong with that.

A264172 · #**188** 12-13-2006, 04:26 PM

A bunch of 'Hums' as far as the eye can see... and yes, that is ment to be an insult.

PaulC · #**189** 12-13-2006, 05:27 PM

That's it. I'm placing the entire membership on my "ignore" list!

A264172 · #**190** 12-13-2006, 06:29 PM

I do so want to mutt back up upon the question as to the effects of the superior European pedigree upon the qualitys of the hounds of our day... but I am tired, and so, have only one enquiry.

What, pray tell, has become of the Neanderthal?

Now that was a successful program.

#**191** 12-13-2006, 06:39 PM

We fight and win the promised land and the bottom feeders come here to exploit its wealth and prosperity because they were failures in their old stinkin cesspool.

PaulC · #**192** 12-13-2006, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A264172

I do so want to mutt back up upon the question as to the effects of the superior European pedigree upon the qualitys of the hounds of our day... but I am tired, and so, have only one enquiry.

What, pray tell, has become of the Neanderthal?

Now that was a successful program.

He's Governor of Florida and doing quite well, thank you very much.

aklim · #**193** 12-13-2006, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulC

He's Governor of Florida and doing quite well, thank you very much.

Has he done a bad job? I haven't heard much of Jeb.

suginami · #**194** 12-13-2006, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Has he done a bad job? I haven't heard much of Jeb.

He's termed out as Governor of Florida, and apparently has done a good job.

His approval ratings are consistently in the 60% range, which is better than G.W. Bush or Clinton ever had.

He has managed to cut taxes, balance the budget, and offer vouchers for public schools, which has proven to be wildly popular.

Botnst · #**195** 12-13-2006, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suginami

He's termed out as Governor of Florida, and apparently has done a good job.

His approval ratings are consistently in the 60% range, which is better than G.W. Bush or Clinton ever had.

He has managed to cut taxes, balance the budget, and offer vouchers for public schools, which has proven to be wildly popular.

Don't forget that he also managed his state through 5 hurricanes one year and three the next. Still balanced the budget, etc.

No, I wouldn't vote for him for president. No new dynasties, please.

B