Physiognomy, phrenology, and telepathy - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

cmac2012 · #1 02-12-2007, 06:10 PM

Please forgive the lengthy thread, but I have been slandered on these pages. For having alleged that facial expression gives some clue to thinking and character, I've been accused of being a phrenologist, phrenology being a pseudo science that was discredited roughly around the time that alchemy went our of style.

Phrenology:

1 : the study of the conformation of the skull based on the belief that it is indicative of mental faculties and character

Physiognomy:

1 : the art of discovering temperament and character from outward appearance
2 : the facial features held to show qualities of mind or character by their configuration or expression

I don't claim to learn all I need to know by glancing at someone's face. The info one can gather from that is only part of what is at one's disposal. I have found that a really sincere and honest face is hard to fake, and I've seen people try. Likewise for deep contentment, happiness, etc.

A quick test:

Of the following two women, which would you men choose to be a partner on some reality show Robinson Crusoe type experiment, say just the two of you. Or perhaps to be your personal trainer. Assume you had only the photo and these were the only two applicants:

What's that? Don't tell me you think you know something about these two women just by looking at their faces!? Oh foul wind, that has blown in this witchcraft -- let us find the author of this nefarious practice and force him to drink the cup of hemlock!!

I guess you're going to say it's too easy. One lady is a dog and one is a babe. The babe is older, BTW. But, whence comest babe-i-tude? I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that a combination of good genes and a lifetime of healthy behavior, a mark of character I assert, has a lot to do with it.

OK, that one was a bit too easy. Suppose you were a commander in Iraq or some other war and you needed someone to carry out a crucial mission. You ask for volunteers and these two guys are the only two who step up:

For the sake of discussion, let's say that these two photos represent a regular pattern in the memory of the commander in his relationship with these two, and that they are an accurate representation of the attitude of each, in the commander's mind.

Both these guys are Iraqi vets, BTW. I can imagine that a commander often has to make quick decisions of this sort.

Lastly, suppose you wanted to purchase some educational materials for real estate investing and these two guys are who you'd narrowed the field down to. Any hints from their physiognomy?

Both are actually in that field. I'm going to try to do a thread about a story regarding the two of them, if I can get the story to download, finally.

As for telepathy, I dunno, a few times I got a serious tingle in my solar plexus from some young lady sending out a serious mo-jo. Oh, I like a dat.

Botnst · #2 02-12-2007, 06:15 PM

ease-up there, cowboy. I didn't slander you, I scoffed at that particular belief.

cmac2012 · #3 02-12-2007, 06:29 PM

Close enough, and it was done with remarkable regularity. Anyone who subcribes to phrenology is not to far away from some pathetic Nazi "doctor" like the one shown in the movie "Europa, Europa," who was measuring the skull of a young man he thought was an Aryan youth, but was in reality a Jew hiding out because he'd been seperated from his family:

"Jah, und ve see here the eyes being 140 mm apart and the peak of the bridge of the nose being 15 mm below the center line of the eyes, und the circumfrence of the skull being 65 cm, this young man is clearly of Aryan origin. (immense internal sigh of relief from the young man)

"Now, Looking at our illustration, ve can see that if the eyes are 110 mm apart or less, and the bridge of the nose is 5 mm or less below the eyes, and further the lips are 125 mm wide and narrow as well, this individual is either a Jew or an imbecile, or both."

Or something like that, I saw the movie 20 years ago. Good movie.

cmac2012 · #4 02-12-2007, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

ease-up there, cowboy. I didn't slander you, I scoffed at that particular belief.

So, any inclinations from the photos? Are you going to tell me nothing in those shots gives you any clue about anything?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that anyone who states that they don't and can't derive useful information just by looking at someone's face is either blind, lying, or a fool.

Botnst · #5 02-12-2007, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

So, any inclinations from the photos? Are you going to tell me nothing in those shots gives you any clue about anything?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that anyone who states that they don't and can't derive useful information just by looking at someone's face is either blind, lying, or a fool.

I'm a blind, lying fool. No wait, I ain't lying.

Damned if I can tell anything useful about any of them. Especially the actress. It's her job to lie and make me believe it. Which I do.

cmac2012 · #6 02-12-2007, 06:52 PM

I rest my case.

Maybe if I show you a resume from the two ladies, it will be of some help. Perhaps a few references.

Botnst · #7 02-12-2007, 06:57 PM

Let me put it this way, based on those photos I wouldn't send them to jail, propose marriage, loan a car, or strike-up a conversation ... except with Streep. But that's only because I have seen several of her movies and think she may actually have some sense in her head. I don't know any of the others and so, have nothing on which to base a relationship.

B

cmac2012 · #8 02-12-2007, 08:13 PM

That wasn't the question, oh master of evasion. The question is, can information be deduced or rather WILL information be deduced that will influence your decision?

In the case of the women, give me a break. Our faces tell a lot about us.

The guy selling the real estate seminars, the dark haired one, has got grinning shark rubber stamped in red on his forehead. The other guy looks a lot more honest to me.

A264172 · #9 02-12-2007, 08:37 PM

CROWD:
A witch! A witch! A witch! A witch! We've found a witch! A witch! A witch! A witch! A witch! We've got a witch! A witch! A witch! Burn her! Burn her! Burn her! We've found a witch! We've found a witch! A witch! A witch! A witch!
VILLAGER #1:
We have found a witch. May we burn her?

CROWD:
Burn her! Burn! Burn her! Burn her!
BEDEVERE:
How do you know she is a witch?
VILLAGER #2:
She looks like one.
CROWD:
Right! Yeah! Yeah!
BEDEVERE:
Bring her forward.
WITCH:
I'm not a witch. I'm not a witch.
BEDEVERE:
Uh, but you are dressed as one.
WITCH:
They dressed me up like this.
CROWD:
Augh, we didn't! We didn't...
WITCH:
And this isn't my nose. It's a false one.
BEDEVERE:
Well?
VILLAGER #1:
Well, we did do the nose.
BEDEVERE:
The nose?
VILLAGER #1:
And the hat, but she is a witch!
VILLAGER #2:
Yeah!
CROWD:
We burn her! Right! Yeaaah! Yeaah!
BEDEVERE:
Did you dress her up like this?
VILLAGER #1:
No!
VILLAGER #2 and 3:
No. No.
VILLAGER #2:
No.
VILLAGER #1:
No.
VILLAGERS #2 and #3:
No.
VILLAGER #1:
Yes.
VILLAGER #2:
Yes.
VILLAGER #1:
Yes. Yeah, a bit.
VILLAGER #3:
A bit.
VILLAGERS #1 and #2:
A bit.
VILLAGER #3:
A bit.
VILLAGER #1:
She has got a wart.
RANDOM:
[cough]
BEDEVERE:
What makes you think she is a witch?
VILLAGER #3:
Well, she turned me into a newt.
BEDEVERE:
A newt?
VILLAGER #3:
I got better.
VILLAGER #2:
Burn her anyway!
VILLAGER #1:
Burn!
CROWD:
Burn her! Burn! Burn her!...
BEDEVERE:
Quiet! Quiet! Quiet! Quiet! There are ways of telling whether she is a witch.
VILLAGER #1:
Are there?
VILLAGER #2:
Ah?
VILLAGER #1:
What are they?
CROWD:
Tell us! Tell us!...
BEDEVERE:
Tell me. What do you do with witches?
VILLAGER #2:
Burn!
VILLAGER #1:
Burn!
CROWD:
Burn! Burn them up! Burn!...
BEDEVERE:
And what do you burn apart from witches?
VILLAGER #1:
More witches!
VILLAGER #3:
Shh!
VILLAGER #2:
Wood!
BEDEVERE:
So, why do witches burn?
[pause]
VILLAGER #3:
B--... 'cause they're made of... wood?
BEDEVERE:
Good! Heh heh.
CROWD:
Oh, yeah. Oh.
BEDEVERE:
So, how do we tell whether she is made of wood?
VILLAGER #1:
Build a bridge out of her.
BEDEVERE:
Ah, but can you not also make bridges out of stone?
VILLAGER #1:
Oh, yeah.
RANDOM:
Oh, yeah. True. Uhh...
BEDEVERE:
Does wood sink in water?
VILLAGER #1:
No. No.
VILLAGER #2:
No, it floats! It floats!
VILLAGER #1:
Throw her into the pond!
CROWD:
The pond! Throw her into the pond!
BEDEVERE:
What also floats in water?
VILLAGER #1:
Bread!
VILLAGER #2:
Apples!
VILLAGER #3:
Uh, very small rocks!
VILLAGER #1:
Cider!
VILLAGER #2:
Uh, gra-- gravy!
VILLAGER #1:
Cherries!
VILLAGER #2:
Mud!
VILLAGER #3:
Uh, churches! Churches!
VILLAGER #2:
Lead! Lead!
ARTHUR:
A duck!
CROWD:
Oooh.
BEDEVERE:
Exactly. So, logically...
VILLAGER #1:
If... she... weighs... the same as a duck,... she's made of wood.
BEDEVERE:
And therefore?
VILLAGER #2:
A witch!
VILLAGER #1:
A witch!
CROWD:
A witch! A witch!...
VILLAGER #4:
Here is a duck. Use this duck.
[quack quack quack]
BEDEVERE:
Very good. We shall use my largest scales.
CROWD:
Ohh! Ohh! Burn the witch! Burn the witch! Burn her! Burn her! Burn her! Burn her! Burn her! Burn her! Burn her! Ahh! Ahh...
BEDEVERE:
Right. Remove the supports!
[whop]
[clunk]
[creak]

CROWD:
A witch! A witch! A witch!
WITCH:
It's a fair cop.
VILLAGER #3:
Burn her!
CROWD:
Burn her! Burn her! Burn her! Burn! Burn!...
BEDEVERE:
Who are you good sir knight who are so wise in the ways of science?
ARTHUR:
I am Arthur, King of the Britons.
BEDEVERE:
My liege!
ARTHUR:
Good Sir Knight, will you come with me to Camelot and join us at the Round Table?
BEDEVERE:
My liege! I would be honored.
ARTHUR:
What is your name?
BEDEVERE:
'Bedevere', my liege.
ARTHUR:
Then I dub you 'Sir Bedevere, Knight of the Round Table'.

BENZ-LGB · #10 02-12-2007, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

Please forgive the lengthy thread, but I have been slandered on these pages. For having alleged that facial expression gives some clue to thinking and character, I've been accused of being a phrenologist, phrenology being a pseudo science that was discredited roughly around the time that alchemy went our of style.

You were not slandered, you were libeled...if that.

And, as you know, in libel truth is always a defense...so there!

As you also probably know, phrenology was often used to support racist theories about the inferiority of certain races.

Physiognomy was also often used to support the belief that certain races were more (or less) "developed."

I think that you are confusing apples and oranges. Trained observers can sometimes tell whether a person is lying by certain facial ticks or expressions. I have attended training seminars put on by experienced FBI investigators/interrogators and yes, there are ways to sometimes tell when a person is lying. Growing up my kids hated my "Jedi mind-meld trick."

In the movie "The Negotiator" the character played by Samuel L. jackson explains to a man that he was holding hostage how he (Jackson) knew when the man was lying.

But you have to be trained in reading facial expressions and ticks.

Lt. Danny Roman: A quick lesson in lying. See, this is what us real cops do: We study liars. Example: If I ask you a question about something visual, like your favorite color, your eyes go up and to the left. Neurophysiology tells us your eyes go in that direction, because you're accessing the visual cortex. So you're telling the truth. If your eyes go up and right, you're accessing the brain's creative centers and we know you're full of ****.

BTW, the woman in the second picture is probably a meth user. I have seen pictures of 30 yo meth users who look like they are 60 or older.

BENZ-LGB · #11 02-12-2007, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

As for telepathy, I dunno, a few times I got a serious tingle in my solar plexus from some young lady sending out a serious mo-jo. Oh, I like a dat.

I too get that...but it is a lot lower than my solar plexus.

kerry · #12 02-12-2007, 08:56 PM

One thing I learned from Mr. VanDeWaal was that primates communicate via body language. Part of that body language involves the face. So, yes, I do think we give and take messages independent of spoken language. These messages can sometimes be misinterpreted but other times the message is correctly understood.
Some people (my brother in law for example) are unable to read faces and this causes them serious social problems. (I believe there is a diagnosable disease associated with this inability)

GottaDiesel · #13 02-12-2007, 08:58 PM

When you see a certain someone post the picture of a foil hat it usually only means one thing:

You have proven him wrong in some way, and he is trying to discredit you by posting the foil-hat link.

BENZ-LGB · #14 02-12-2007, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GottaDiesel

When you see a certain someone post the picture of a foil hat it usually only means one thing:

You have proven him wrong in some way, and he is trying to discredit you by posting the foil-hat link.

GD...sometimes a picture is worth a 1000 words.

I think that B was just being his eloquent self.

Ease up cowboy!

Incidentally, one day when I came home from a particularly tough day at the office, my kids waited for me sitting on the sofa, watching SIGNS and wearing foil hats--just like in the movie

It was hysterical and it gave me a good, long laugh after a particular tough day at work.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled thread....

cmac2012 · #15 02-12-2007, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Let me put it this way, based on those photos I wouldn't send them to jail, propose marriage, loan a car, or strike-up a conversation ... except with Streep. But that's only because I have seen several of her movies and think she may actually have some sense in her head. I don't know any of the others and so, have nothing on which to base a relationship.

I would preferred to have found a more anonymous face than Streep's but I couldn't find a picture of an attractive woman over 30 or 40.