Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Discussions > Off-Topic Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-01-2007, 08:39 AM
Botnst's Avatar
What knockers!
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: There castle.
Posts: 41,503
The synthetic Chinese model of communism

Does Communism Work After All?

By Andreas Lorenz and Wieland Wagner

China is securing an ever-bigger share of the world market with the methods of a planned economy. Competitors and economists alike are astounded by the country's seemingly unstoppable march to becoming a global economic superpower. The development has left many wondering: Does communism work after all?

Boom City Shanghai: President Hu Jintao and his Communist Party are experiencing explosive success across the country.
Nine men dressed in dark tailored suits meet behind high, Red walls. Their secret meeting place in downtown Beijing is called Zhongnanhai, or "Middle and Southern Lake." Once part of the Forbidden City, Zhongnanhai was a place where emperors, concubines and eunuchs would spend their days concocting court intrigues. Some of the buildings from those feudal days are still standing today, joined by functional, gray and white structures built when the Chinese Communist Party established its headquarters here.

The nine men -- who constitute the Standing Committee of the Communist Party's Politburo, the most-powerful political body in the Middle Kingdom -- meet in the southern section of this refuge. Their discreet meeting is businesslike. The group's members were not elected by the people and they are not interested in being observed while governing. Cameras are banned and there is a conspicuous absence of jovial pats on the back or ready smiles for the evening news.

None of the members of this sombre squad is known for his charisma. President Hu Jintao, 64, the head of state and Communist Party leader, and his eight colleagues are stiff technocrats. Hu, the son of a tea merchant from Jiangsu Province, holds a degree in hydroelectric engineering. The others are trained in fields like electrical engineering, metallurgy or geology.

But the discussions and decisions made here within the ranks of China's Politburo affect the well-being of 1.3 billion Chinese -- and increasingly the rest of the world. If the Middle Kingdom were not a country, but rather a giant company -- let's call it Red China, Inc. -- then the Politburo would be its all-powerful board of directors.

And if Hu were not a communist official but rather a capitalist corporate boss, he would find himself inundated with job offers worldwide. Competitors in the capitalist West can only dream of the successes he and his fellow communist leaders cum business executives have achieved.

Hardly a day goes by on which Asia's giant, Red corporation does not report new and dazzling business figures. And the more helplessly Western heads of state -- from United States President George W. Bush to German Chancellor Angela Merkel -- attempt to reform their traditional market economies, the more enviously the capitalist world eyes China's frenzied growth, all the while asking itself: Does communism work after all?

China's speedy ascent to become a global economic superpower is troubling to many: to the industrialized nations of the West because they fear for their jobs; to politicians because the global balance of power is shifting; and, last but not least, to economists because it is so puzzling to them.

Economists' theories are based on the recognition that market forces alone drive economic growth. The state's only role is to ensure that competition functions and that no one is able to abuse his power in the marketplace to an inadmissible degree.

A Midas touch

For these economists, the fall of the Iron Curtain offered glaring proof that their hypotheses were correct. Indeed, planned economies in Soviet bloc countries were failures, creating poverty instead of affluence and leaving industrial wastelands in their wake. Yet China is flourishing. With a blend of a planned economy and unbridled capitalism that you won't find mentioned in any textbook, the country is capturing world markets and achieving double-digit growth year after year.

Hu and his Red board of directors appear to have something akin to the Midas touch. With their country, which amounts to a gigantic, low- cost factory, they have already managed to accumulate more than $1 trillion in foreign currency reserves. In theory, at least, the communist People's Republic of China, has now joined the United States, the global capitalist superpower, in deciding the fate of the world's leading currency.

In 2005, China leapfrogged over France and Great Britain to become the world's fourth-largest economy. The country's new spot in the rankings came as the result of an omission on the part of its communist bosses: Already blessed with so much growth, they had simply forgotten to include a large portion of their giant service sector in China's economic statistics.

American sinologist Roderick MacFarquhar is astonished by China's performance. "Never before," says MacFarquhar, "has so much wealth been created by so many people in such a short time span."

If China continues to grow at the same pace, it will oust Germany as the world's third-biggest economy in only two years, perhaps even dethroning the United States from its leading position one day. In 2005, China was already the US's second-largest goods supplier and Japan's largest. Not satisfied with being No. 2, Beijing's strategists are continuing their plans to shower the world with inexpensive products such as T-shirts and DVD players -- and, increasingly, with Chinese high technology.

A fast-developing tech sector

China recently surpassed Germany in the number of patents it registers. With its latest five-year plan, the country's Communist Party has set itself an ambitious goal of catapulting China to world-class heights in the fields of science and technology. According to the plan, Chinese probes will orbit the moon next year and land on it by 2010. China's space ambitions also include a bizarre aural spectacle: Its lunar orbiters will transmit 150 pop songs back to earth, including a Chinese tune titled "We Love our China."

The Communist Party's economic successes aren't its only impressive achievement. Chinese cities are safer than places like São Paulo or Bogotá, and they seem cleaner and more orderly than the slums of Nairobi or Soweto in South Africa. Beijing and Shanghai boast a lively cultural scene, and broadband Internet access is already taken for granted in the country's major cities. Mobile phone reception is even available in small villages.

Communist Party leader Hu and his Politburo colleagues aren't the only ones behind the changes that have swept across this vast country. True, they are responsible for coming up with the overriding strategies behind China's economic miracle, and for this task they take the necessary time -- hours that Western politicians waste doing the rounds on talk shows. But the Politburo also routinely solicits advice and reports on the latest global trends in science and business -- on issues running the gamut from biotechnology to health insurance -- from academics in so-called "study sessions." This being a communist land, these sessions would of course be incomplete without the requisite lectures on China's revolutionary history and Marxist theory.

The State Council, China's cabinet -- headed by the pedantic and schoolmaster-like 64-year-old Prime Minister Wen Jiabao -- deals with the day-to-day business of government. The cabinet meets at least three times a month, as required by law, in a building located a stone's throw from the offices of the Politburo. Meetings are graced with tall beauties dressed in red outfits and white gloves, who serve cabinet members green tea from the Wuyuan district in Jiangxi Province.

Red China, Inc.'s central nervous system

In addition to Wen, this inner circle of the Chinese government includes four deputy premiers, five members of the State Council (including one general) and a secretary general. Comprised of eight men and two women, the group directs and coordinates the work of 28 ministries and commissions, including the country's central bank and its central auditing authority. It also presides over an immense number of government agencies, including China's official news agency, Xinhua, the Academy of Sciences, the customs agency, the weather bureau, an agency in charge of grain production and distribution and -- not to be overlooked -- the Administration of Government Offices, which provides high-ranking officials with living quarters, cars and vacation homes.

More at: http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,druck-465007,00.html

__________________
'Government is like a baby:
An alimentary canal with a big appetite at one end and
no sense of responsibility at the other'
- Ronald Reagan
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-01-2007, 08:50 AM
Kuan's Avatar
unband
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: At the Birkebeiner
Posts: 3,811
Sure it works, if you agree to the other side of the coin.

Govt. control of industry.

Artificial currency value.

Systematic removal whole villages and towns in the name of the motherland.

Rewriting the birth records to make people dissappear.

..
.
.
etc.

China is what Castro aspires to be.

__________________
You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows - Robert A. Zimmerman
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-01-2007, 08:57 AM
dannym's Avatar
I'm not here
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Deltona, Florida
Posts: 2,360
If you watch the series China Rising on the science channel I believe it describes China's economy. It's a very interesting series.

The thing I found most interesting was the finance minister? (I think that's what he's called) said the country's economy is tottering on the brink and could collapse at any time.

Now that's a comforting thought. I almost wish it would, we really need a wake up call here in the US.

Danny
__________________
1984 300SD Turbo Diesel 150,000 miles

OBK member #23

(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-01-2007, 09:02 AM
GottaDiesel's Avatar
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuan View Post
Sure it works, if you agree to the other side of the coin.

Govt. control of industry.

Artificial currency value.

Systematic removal whole villages and towns in the name of the motherland.

Rewriting the birth records to make people dissappear.

..
.
.
etc.

China is what Castro aspires to be.

Nah... we don't have anything like that...

1) OSHA, DEP, EPA, SEC, and more.

2) Our currency is so over inflated at the moment it isn't even funny -- google search for more.

3) eminent domain - talk to anyone who has had entire (or portions) parcels of land taken for far less than the developed value.

4) Nah... this never happens. Our government doesn't do things that could hurt the people. We didn't nuclear test in the Nevada, We didn't do radiation testing on thyroids, and we certainly never allowed anything like the tuskegee experiments to take place.

5) In addition, we have countless local, county, state, and federal workers who suck our pockets dry with job security while others in the community go hungry or just scrape by.

We live in a nation that is "representative of the people" yet those that represent us travel everywhere in limousines and eat the finest foods.

And the "Common Good" -- a cloak for communism -- take a look at how our entire society is forced to pay for the education of other people's children. If I have 1 kid or 10 kids, my tax burden is the same -- and if anything, the more kids I have the LESS I pay in taxes.

So, please, while I don't want to live in a communist nation, let's not make it out to be so far from how we live - the reality is, it isn't.

And as of late -- more so is -- speak out against the administration and you have laws "enforced" to keep you from doing so. (example: Cindy Sheehan @ Bush Ranch).

We live in a wonderful land, and yes, it is far better than many -- but there are many with better attributes in some respects -- ones we should strive to emulate and others we shouldn't. I find we have, as of late, striven to emulate the latter.

Pete
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-01-2007, 09:04 AM
GottaDiesel's Avatar
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,564
Quote:
Originally Posted by dannym View Post
the country's economy is tottering on the brink and could collapse at any time.
Danny,

The key question is:

Do you believe that? Yes/No?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-01-2007, 10:37 AM
Hatterasguy's Avatar
Zero
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Milford, CT
Posts: 19,307
They have a lot of problems. China has a long way to go, they still are not attracting any foriegn real estate investment. China has a long way to go, but lets see if they can't keep this up for another 30 years.
__________________
2020 GMC Sierra Denali
2007 Tiara 3200
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-01-2007, 12:13 PM
dannym's Avatar
I'm not here
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Deltona, Florida
Posts: 2,360
Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaDiesel View Post
Danny,

The key question is:

Do you believe that? Yes/No?
I didn't make that up. One of the heads of state in China did.
Do I believe it? Why wouldn't I?
__________________
1984 300SD Turbo Diesel 150,000 miles

OBK member #23

(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-01-2007, 12:43 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,108
Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaDiesel View Post
Nah... we don't have anything like that...

1) OSHA, DEP, EPA, SEC, and more.

2) Our currency is so over inflated at the moment it isn't even funny -- google search for more.

3) eminent domain - talk to anyone who has had entire (or portions) parcels of land taken for far less than the developed value.

4) Nah... this never happens. Our government doesn't do things that could hurt the people. We didn't nuclear test in the Nevada, We didn't do radiation testing on thyroids, and we certainly never allowed anything like the tuskegee experiments to take place.

5) In addition, we have countless local, county, state, and federal workers who suck our pockets dry with job security while others in the community go hungry or just scrape by.

We live in a nation that is "representative of the people" yet those that represent us travel everywhere in limousines and eat the finest foods.

And the "Common Good" -- a cloak for communism -- take a look at how our entire society is forced to pay for the education of other people's children. If I have 1 kid or 10 kids, my tax burden is the same -- and if anything, the more kids I have the LESS I pay in taxes.

So, please, while I don't want to live in a communist nation, let's not make it out to be so far from how we live - the reality is, it isn't.

And as of late -- more so is -- speak out against the administration and you have laws "enforced" to keep you from doing so. (example: Cindy Sheehan @ Bush Ranch).

We live in a wonderful land, and yes, it is far better than many -- but there are many with better attributes in some respects -- ones we should strive to emulate and others we shouldn't. I find we have, as of late, striven to emulate the latter.

Pete
Except for the bold, I think you finally got it right. i agree with all of the rest.

If China gets too big, who's going to start the war, them or us?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-01-2007, 12:47 PM
GottaDiesel's Avatar
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,564
Quote:
Originally Posted by dannym View Post
I didn't make that up. One of the heads of state in China did.
Do I believe it? Why wouldn't I?
So if China says something, you believe it, do I understand you correctly?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-01-2007, 12:48 PM
GottaDiesel's Avatar
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,564
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinsCE View Post
Except for the bold, I think you finally got it right. i agree with all of the rest.

If China gets too big, who's going to start the war, them or us?
It would have to be them. Us starting a "war" with China would be akin to shooting yourself in the head with a rocket launcher -- they would destroy us economically (if they haven't already) -- and physically. Best to keep our "Friend" close.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-01-2007, 01:23 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 18,355
China=Dick Cheney's wet dream??? Finally, a corporate country.
__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-01-2007, 01:26 PM
Kuan's Avatar
unband
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: At the Birkebeiner
Posts: 3,811
Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaDiesel View Post
So, please, while I don't want to live in a communist nation, let's not make it out to be so far from how we live - the reality is, it isn't.
I feel like Ernesto right now.
__________________
You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows - Robert A. Zimmerman
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-01-2007, 02:14 PM
dannym's Avatar
I'm not here
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Deltona, Florida
Posts: 2,360
Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaDiesel View Post
So if China says something, you believe it, do I understand you correctly?
I believe he was being truthful when he said it. I never said I would believe anything anyone said, you made that part up.
I can't help wondering if theres any point to your questions???

Danny
__________________
1984 300SD Turbo Diesel 150,000 miles

OBK member #23

(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-01-2007, 02:16 PM
GottaDiesel's Avatar
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,564
Quote:
Originally Posted by dannym View Post
I believe he was being truthful when he said it. I never said I would believe anything anyone said, you made that part up.
I cvan't help wondering if theres any point to your questions???

Danny
My point is that you indicated that you believed what a person wrote. I was interested in learning why you feel that way -- if it was perhaps your nature to just believe what people say, or if you had some other insight.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-01-2007, 02:41 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Rockville MD
Posts: 833
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatterasguy View Post
They have a lot of problems. China has a long way to go, they still are not attracting any foriegn real estate investment. China has a long way to go, but lets see if they can't keep this up for another 30 years.
They are missing a system of checks and balances, and a lot of their information, especially economic, is double-counted or exaggerated. They are using these means to quell any potential uprising against the central government. So for now, while times are good, everyone is fairly content with the 'progress' that seems to be in motion. Eventually though, they will hit some kind of productivity ceiling. When and if that happens, the over-inflated numbers that they use now to paint that rosy picture will come crashing back at them. Not only that, the legacy they leave behind will be one of massive environmental destruction.

__________________
1985 380SE Blue/Blue - 230,000 miles
2012 Subaru Forester 5-speed
2005 Toyota Sienna
2004 Chrysler Sebring convertible
1999 Toyota Tacoma
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page