How would YOU design an extremely low-cost car? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Botnst · #16 01-09-2008, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WVOtoGO

On the side ---

I think DJ sent you a PM about the P-39. Did you get it?
She's all ate up with that sort of stuff. And it's in the UK to boot!
Thanks from me as well.

Now, back to the thread.

Yes she did, nice note. You two have a bad case of airplane, don't you?

WVOtoGO · #17 01-09-2008, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Yes she did, nice note. You two have a bad case of airplane, don't you?

Even the bikers with the “Live to ride. Ride to live.” thing going, couldn’t begin to comprehend what it’s like around here.

Nasty bug bite at about age 2 for both of us.
Down hill from there.

LUVMBDiesels · #18 01-09-2008, 02:19 PM

Think Corsley and Metropolitan, Trabrant and Lada for examples.

At leat the Crosely and Metro were decent cars - lots of which survive today

The big problem with making a cheap car, especially for the USA will be crash protection.

Nothing made cheaply will contain the crumple zones, air bags, reinforcements, etc needed to pass the Gov't tests.

Even if you could get the production costs down (slave labor in China?) you could not get the engineering costs to where you could sell the car as cheaply as the ones for the Indian or Chinese markets

Look at the new Maxi ,er, Mini... In it's first 35 years it was a very cheap and cute car. When BMW redesigned it for the US market it had to grow in weight and price.

Hatterasguy · #19 01-09-2008, 02:24 PM

I'd make it out of beer cans and packing crates, pay kids .05 cents a day to build it, and then pack them full of drugs so the maffia will ship them around for free.

At $2,500 each where is the part for the CEO to skim?

OldPokey · #20 01-09-2008, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlomon

The floorboards on a Model T? Wood from packing crates used to deliver parts to the factory.

And wood left over from that was made into Kingsford charcoal briquettes. That guy new efficiency.

Hatterasguy · #21 01-09-2008, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldPokey

And wood left over from that was made into Kingsford charcoal briquettes. That guy new efficiency.

Oh yeah, back in the day they new how to run a company. The founder of Chris Craft would sort through all the wood and send anything back large enough to get e bung out of. What was left was burned to heat the plant.

MS Fowler · #22 01-09-2008, 04:52 PM

Its good to see a few who are familiar with Mr. Ford. With all the re-writing of history and excluding of many notable people so that the obscure may be praised, its good to see he is even remembered. Or are you guys old like me?
Mr. Ford's genius lay in several things--
He had a vision for a universal car, and pursued that dream to the exclusion of everything else.
He was able to intuitively size gears, shafts and bearings to an amazing accuracy.
He hired good people.
He simplified everything possible. If an assembly was held together with 4 screws , he wanted 1 or 2; if there was a single fastener, he wanted to weld it together.
He did not listen when "people" told him, " It can't be done"-witness the continuous casting process for both iron and glass.

He also had a lot of negatives--some were evil enough it made people wonder which was the "real" HF. After publishing the series of articles on the World-wide Jew, he was surprised that Jews reacted negatively.
A truly enigmatic individual in an age where individuals controlled their own companies.

cmac2012 · #23 01-09-2008, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

The announcement of the upcoming $2500 Tata caused me to think how I might make a low-cost car. Here's my starting list--How would you do it?
Remember this is an extremely minimal vehicle.

4 passenger.
Tricyclce car with the single wheel in the rear, driving the car--eliminates differential, and does not have problems with inside wheel lifting as in a powered 2 wheel axle in a trike.
One Door--passenger side to promote curb-side egress, and simplify. Also promotes rigid safety cell by having no opening in driver's side.
No interior door panels
Floor covering might be a spray-on in 2 layers--first layer is a resilent material for some sound deadening, topped with a tough layer like Rhino liner material.
Probably about 35-40 HP driving thru a 3 or 4 speed tranny--maybe a planetary gear train, depending on costs.
Side windows slide up and down with catches at only 3 positions--fully closed, about 1" open ( for vent), half open, and then fully open ( no catch required at bottom of the travel. Catch is a rod running in a track at the bottom of the glass--not spring catches like on a school bus ( too many parts)
Flat side glass and same shape for all side glass--interchangeable side-to-side and front-to-rear. Maybe even flat glass front and rear. ( All glass safety type, of course)
Simple seat construction--steel loop frame and elastic (bungy) cords with some padding and cover.
No external trunk ( simplifies exterior sheet metal and no hinges or shut lines to worry about) access to spare storage is thru the wide single door and folding rear seat.
All gauges in a single cluster --speed odometer, fuel and temp.
Heat, vent and defrost only--NO provision for A/C

Well, I gotta get back to work, but this is a start.
What would you do?

Wasn't the tricycle configuration part of the problem with stability on Buckminster Fuller's ill fated tri-maxion (or something) car?

Larry Delor · #24 01-09-2008, 08:05 PM

MS,
Your description reminded me of the Citroen 2CV a little.
http://www.frithjof.de/citroen-2cv/2cv-verkauf.htm

MS Fowler · #25 01-09-2008, 10:24 PM

Well,, I appreciate the references. In my mind thd 2CV loaned the seat design. Buckminister Fuller's trimaxion, hmmm, I can't remember if it was a trike with 2 wheels in the front or the rear, and whether they were driven. I don't have the reference at hand, but there was a trike that served as the model for much of the idea. I'll post it tomorrow.

PaulC · #26 01-09-2008, 11:41 PM

See if Ford kept all of the tooling for the 1960 Ford Falcon.

suginami · #27 01-09-2008, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulC

See if Ford kept all of the tooling for the 1960 Ford Falcon.

On that note, my buddy has a '68 Plymouth Valiant that is about as simple as they come: carbureted V8, crank windows, manual door locks. It has been about a perfect as a car can be for as long as he's owned it.

t walgamuth · #28 01-10-2008, 12:00 AM

The model T is the first thing that came to my mind. The citreon 2cv is a good example too. The bmw isetta was an excellent design in many ways. I can remember seeing a few of those around Greencastle Indiana where I grew up. It was a small town but had Depauw university with the nutball professors many of whom had spent time in Europe.

The trimaxion (?) the bucky fuller car had two fixed wheels in front, driven by a torque tube with the ford v8 mounted mid ships or so. One steered wheel in the back made it completely unsafe. ONe of Bucky's worst ideas. Amazing that it got to a full working model at all.

I rode around in a 2cv in Europe one day and it was a real treat. They made the Vw beetle look complicated, heavy and inefficient in space construction and fuel usage. They were very very simple, I think the front fenders had like three bolts holding them on. Two cylinder air cooled boxer motor. Removeble seats so you could have a picnic on the beach. They make any mercedes look like a tour bus!

Tom W

Eskimo · #29 01-10-2008, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

Buckminister Fuller's trimaxion, hmmm, I can't remember if it was a trike with 2 wheels in the front or the rear, and whether they were driven. I don't have the reference at hand, but there was a trike that served as the model for much of the idea. I'll post it tomorrow.

You want some 3 wheelers?

Knock yourself out!

(Yes, their list includes Buckminster Fuller's Dymaxion.)

Larry Delor · #30 01-10-2008, 12:20 AM

Instead a 23HP boxer, I would probably opt for a small 3 or 4 cyl diesel.