20 kmpl = 46 mpg. I agree that is not so impressive, but that Accord is probably going to be about $25,000 more to buy isn't it? If so, then I don't think the Honda is going to survive long enough for the fuel savings to offset the initial cost.

My 95 Accord V6 has 500,000+ miles on original engine and its still running strong so I guess the diesel Accord will pay itself off eventually if the world doesn't end by then.

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99 Gurkha with OM616 IDI turbo

2015 Gurkha with OM616 DI turbo

2014 Rexton W with OM612 VGT

I wouldn't. The LAST thing we need is for every one in the United States to be able to afford a car.

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1987 300D, arctic white/palomino--314,000 miles
1978 240D 4-speed, Euro Delivery, light ivory/bamboo--370,000 miles
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited, light khaki/slate--140,000 miles
2018 Chevy Cruze diesel, 6-speed manual, satin steel metallic/kalahari--19,000 miles
1982 Peugeot 505 diesel, 4-speed manual, blue/blue, 130,000 miles
1995 S320, black/parchment--34,000 miles (Dad's car)

OTOH it would be a lot better for folks with not much money to all be driving one of those nifty little cars than a 20 year old oldsmobile belching fumes and using a gallon of gas every 12 miles or so.

When I am driving one of my cars with the air coming in from the outside I can often smell the unburned hydrocarbons from an old pickup or van that is three or four cars ahead of me.

Yech!

Tom W

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

A minimalist car, no matter how start opens up a WORLD of opportunity to those who have no car. Walking, and carrying goods to market just can't compete with driving and loading up the car.
Again, probably not going to happen in the US, but in 3rd world countires with emerging economies, it just might be the ticket.

Bodhi, better check your figures, I believe we already have more vehicles in the US than drivers; maybe more than all people.

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

Having more cars than people does not mean that everyone already has a car. Believe me, if everyone could afford a car, cities and highways would be even worse than they are now, as would the fuel crisis. What I'm saying is that, in my opinion, we don't need MORE cars on the road, and especially not in the hands of what one might call the "sub-prime" crowd. Not everybody is "entitled" to a car. Not to hijack the thread, but entitlement is destroying America, from the housing industry to the automotive industry to health care and all across the general social landscape.

I'm not speaking for developing countries, where the situation is much different, and having super-cheap cars may be a great step to growing their economies.

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1987 300D, arctic white/palomino--314,000 miles
1978 240D 4-speed, Euro Delivery, light ivory/bamboo--370,000 miles
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited, light khaki/slate--140,000 miles
2018 Chevy Cruze diesel, 6-speed manual, satin steel metallic/kalahari--19,000 miles
1982 Peugeot 505 diesel, 4-speed manual, blue/blue, 130,000 miles
1995 S320, black/parchment--34,000 miles (Dad's car)

For simplicity and low cost you can't get much better than a Trabant (before Volkswagen took over).
2 cylinder, two stroke aircooled 600cc engine, front whel drive, independent suspention on all four corners, gas tank under the hood on top of the engine, , plastic body, everything manual. No AC pump, radiator, power steering, power brakes, cooling and fuel lines, water pump, catalytic converters, etc, etc. Max speed around 100km/h, sits four, rather uncomfortably.
Very basic, very cheap, very pedestrian. Very bad for the environment. Don't know about the safety aspects, don't want to find out.

Alex

Attached Thumbnails

 

How to make a cheap car ? Some thoughts:

Air cooled or water cooled motor ?

If you go aircooled, in order to heat/defrost the windshield you'd need some kind of electric heating element to make heat. Based on the number of rusted out VW heaterboxes I've seen, I think I'd just go electric (but you'd need a bigger alternator to power the heater...

If you go watercooled, you need a water pump, thermostat, but you have a kickin' heater =)

Plastic windows that fold down instead of glass ?

Wheels would be full size, 4x100 bolt pattern so there are lots of examples out there.

-John

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2009 Kia Sedona
2009 Honda Odyssey EX-L
12006 Jetta Pumpe Duse
(insert Mercedes here)

Husband, Father, sometimes friend =)

I was not advocating more cheap cars in the US. I was just expanding the the new Tata, and thinking how I might design such a car.
It is for new markets where ANY car is better than no car.

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

Certainly ... guess I was being a little "ethnocentric" when I automatically assumed the hypothetical car being designed was being designed for the U.S. market.

It's hard for me to imagine designing a car for say, India, where the dynamic is so different from what it is here. We tend (rightly so) to get hung up on safety, but safety here is probably much more an issue here than it is there. These cars are not being designed to be driven at 90 mph on the expressway, or to be used as battering rams at rush hour as our cars so often are. The cheap cars are being designed for markets where 1) There won't be as many cars on the roads 2) They won't be going that fast or doing "high performance" driving and 3) The cars will probably be used mostly for a utilitarian purpose ... i.e., the basic needs, that as you said, become MUCH easier to fulfill when one has a simple motorized vehicle. I don't think you will see a lot of people strapping their kiddos in to take a daytrip to the mall. In the U.S., a lot of us practically live in our cars, drive them quite fast and are exposed to heavy, dangerous traffic ... so safety is a much bigger challenge and drives up the cost of cars sold in the U.S.

My eariler posts were mostly just in reaction to all the people I've heard say "How come we can't have those cars in the U.S.? We should have $2,500 cars in the U.S.!" They always seem surprised when I say, uh no, we shouldn't ...

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1987 300D, arctic white/palomino--314,000 miles
1978 240D 4-speed, Euro Delivery, light ivory/bamboo--370,000 miles
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited, light khaki/slate--140,000 miles
2018 Chevy Cruze diesel, 6-speed manual, satin steel metallic/kalahari--19,000 miles
1982 Peugeot 505 diesel, 4-speed manual, blue/blue, 130,000 miles
1995 S320, black/parchment--34,000 miles (Dad's car)

That car couldn't be sold in this country for under $10k, or what you can get a little POS from Kia for.

First you have to make it meet are safety standards, then you have to make it meet CA emissions standards. Heck the catalytic converters on half the MB's on this website cost more than that car.

So it will weigh a lot more, put out slightly less power, and cost about $10k. They will sell 1 maybe 2.

We don't need cheap cars in this country, we already have to many cars. You can buy $2,500 used cars that are better than that POS all day long.

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2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

The only good point if there is any about this car in India is the ease of parking, I wouldn't mind one just to go grocery shopping etc. Parking lots here are full, SUVs are the norm, with my 300D or the Gurkha, I have virtually no space to manoeuvre.

I would rather get the same size Bajaj car which will have Nissan engine. It will be around $3200 but it will last.

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99 Gurkha with OM616 IDI turbo

2015 Gurkha with OM616 DI turbo

2014 Rexton W with OM612 VGT

LOL...

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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

BodhiBenz1987,
You summed it up pretty well.
Think back to France before the 2CV, or the US before the Ford T, cars theu put their respective countries on wheels; pioneering cars.
Thats where India, and much of Asia is today. The Tata may do very well in its intended market.

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

Actually Tata's Indica which is a 4 cylinder turbo diesel does quite well in India.

http://indica.tatamotors.com/turbo/index.aspx

Type 475 Turbo Diesel
No. of Cylinders 4 inline
Piston Displacement 1405 cc
Maximum Output : DLG & DLX 68 PS @ 4500 rpm
Maximum Output : DLS 62 PS @ 4500 rpm
Maximum Torque : DLG & DLX 13 kgm @ 2500 rpm
Maximum Torque : DLS 12.5 kgm @ 2500 rpm
Compression Ratio 21:1

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99 Gurkha with OM616 IDI turbo

2015 Gurkha with OM616 DI turbo

2014 Rexton W with OM612 VGT