Turns Out, We Do Torture - Page 8 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Botnst · #**106** 02-07-2008, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Txjake

I have been through SERE, been waterboarded. was it fun? no. do I wake up at night needing counseling? no. I knew they were not going to kill me, although the feeling of involuntary panic from the procedure is indescribeable. The insurgents also know we are not going to kill them during interegation, so something that brings on an uncontrollable panic and willingness to cooperate to make that s**t stop is a useful tool. No one is immune to it's effects. It is not torture, but it will make you talk......

Please don't confuse the issue with facts and experience.

B

Botnst · #**107** 02-07-2008, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTI

The "GC" argument is specious . . is the US concerned that al Qaeda is going to bring war crimes charges or treaty violations against it in the Hague? Please, that's a justification that demonstrates an inoperable moral compass.

One man's "specious" is another man's "cogent".

to me, culture is transactional group behavior. As long as we all treat each other okay then we will all be okay. But if the transaction fails then we no longer have a consensual relationship. From that moment forward, we both get to choose how we are going to act and whether or not we care to take the other side's behavior into account.

My accounting for the Al Qaeda folks is how they treat other people. If they were to quit dynamiting civilians in markets and quit trying to fly airliners into buildings and quit trying to dynamite buses and trains of civilians I might be will to treat them as legal combatants according to the Geneva Conventions.

Until then, crank-up the rock-n-roll in the detention facility and pull up the waterboard as needed.

So far it appears as though that particular technique has been used only 3 times on Al Qaeda. How many thousands of times do you think it has been used on American sailors, soldiers, marines and airmen in the course of training? Are we torturing them?

Botnst · #**108** 02-07-2008, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichC

.

I have often wondered if we should round up all of the people on
the planet who want to war, and kill.

Put them on an island somewhere,
and give them all the wepons they want.

And let them kill each other.

That way we could get these guys out of the gene pool.

And the rest of us could have some peace.

Thanks
RichC

.

Would you use force to round them up or would you ask them to go voluntarily in the expectation that they would depart to save you from a severely debilitating case of the vapors?

RichC · #**109** 02-07-2008, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Would you use force to round them up or would you ask them to go voluntarily in the expectation that they would depart to save you from a severely debilitating case of the vapors?

They are doing a pretty good job of rounding themselves up.
Just wish so many innocent people did not have to die.

Easy on the vapors comments mr smarty pants.

MTI · #**110** 02-07-2008, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Doe

Because people like you cry about it?

I had no idea I mattered so.

MTI · #**111** 02-07-2008, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

So far it appears as though that particular technique has been used only 3 times on Al Qaeda.

That childlike belief in official disclosures is something you should never lose.

Quote:

How many thousands of times do you think it has been used on American sailors, soldiers, marines and airmen in the course of training? Are we torturing them?

Is that how they find the gay ones? Or do you mean something else?

Botnst · #**112** 02-07-2008, 08:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst
So far it appears as though that particular technique has been used only 3 times on Al Qaeda.
1. That childlike belief in official disclosures is something you should never lose. MTI

Quote:
How many thousands of times do you think it has been used on American sailors, soldiers, marines and airmen in the course of training? Are we torturing them?
2. Is that how they find the gay ones? Or do you mean something else? MTI

1. make an accusation. Innuendo is for pussies.

2. Argument by non sequitur.

PaulC · #**113** 02-07-2008, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichC

.

I have often wondered if we should round up all of the people on
the planet who want to war, and kill.

Put them on an island somewhere,
and give them all the wepons they want.

And let them kill each other.

That way we could get these guys out of the gene pool.

And the rest of us could have some peace.

Thanks
RichC

.

Oh. Um, aren't we trying something like that in the vicinity of Cuba?

Txjake · #**114** 02-07-2008, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

?!?

First post I recall of yours had you putting up the hang-man "smilie" along with blazing uzis regarding Jane Fonda. I was thinking, "Jeez, I wonder if this guy was a POW in Nam." Then I find out you were born years after it ended.

It would be nice if we were always the good guys, just by the very fact of showing up. We are not.

Nixon was seriously contemplating blowing up the dikes in Nam (a war crime) and using Nukes. Kissinger disagreed with both. Nixon said (on tape): "Damnit Henry, I just want you to think big."

Fonda's trip was organized because of suspicions that the dikes were going to be bombed.

How would have bombing the dikes have been anymore of a war crime than the bombing of Dresden or Tokyo?

If Hanoi Jane was there because of that, it is truly a shame then that Nixon didn't let LeMay loose with the B52s. She is a true enemy of the US. I was born then, and remember how she betrayed her country.....

kerry · #**115** 02-07-2008, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Txjake

How would have bombing the dikes have been anymore of a war crime than the bombing of Dresden or Tokyo?
:

No more of a war crime than either of those events. But that doesn't mean either of those weren't war crimes.

Botnst · #**116** 02-08-2008, 01:17 PM

The winner defines war crime. That's why Vietnam hasn't prosecuted guards that tortured folks like Jon McCain.

RichC · #**117** 02-08-2008, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Doe

Your position on this issue seems to be in the serious minority here, and the analogy to the Salem witch trials is simply not applicable.

So because my position on this issue is in the minority here it is wrong.
Well your position is difinatly in the minority on the worlds stage, does that mean your wrong.

At a point in time the majority of people thought the sun revolved around the earth, which many at the time thought was flat.

Majority opinion has nothing to do with facts sometimes.

And you never have explained how the torture of supposed witches
is not an applicable analogy with the torture of supposeed terrorists.

RichC · #**118** 02-08-2008, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Txjake

"Remember the Salem witch trials ?

This situation is no different.
We are torturing people we are afraid of.
They thought they had a good enough reason for it then.
And some people think we have good enough reason now."

I am sorry to say this, but that statement makes you sound like have a mental disorder......

Then explain how the situation is different.
You might figure out how mentally ill it is to think it is ok to torture people.

RichC · #**119** 02-08-2008, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howitzer

right

RLTW

And since you think I am mentally ill also.
Why dont you help explain the difference.

And I am glad you have figured out what is right and
what is wrong.

Can you tell us how ?

cmac2012 · #**120** 02-08-2008, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by connerm

cmac2012,
I'm not worried about our reputation in the world. The rest of the world already hates us as much as possible. So what? History will judge us by our ability to survive in a very dangerous world. I'm just hopeful the judges are not Shia or Wahabi.

I agree with TW's reply. I gather that we are much more popular in Indonesia than other Muslim countries because of our aid after the Tsunami.

People are not fools all over the planet. We are not only surviving better than the rest of the world, we are throwing huge amounts of resources on various bonfires of pleasure: NASCAR, jetskies, RVs, where to stop? Some of those resources are virtually seized from local residents in various regions much poorer than us.

THE WISE MAN LEARNS MORE FROM HIS ENEMIES THAN THE FOOL DOES FROM HIS FRIENDS. - Franklin