There's no such thing as a spoiler. If people vote for him, they are obviously not satisfied with the other candidates. If those people would otherwise vote for one party's candidate, maybe that party should adopt some of his positions. It's silly to begrudge him his supporters.

No 3rd party has much of a chance because the two main parties have rigged the game, but I think that a)it's important that people try, and b)he doesn't steal votes from anyone, he gets votes from people who want to give him votes.




Regardless, I don't think he'll have much impact this time.

__________________
1984 300TD

Why do people claim to support third parties only when it supports their own ideology or hurts the opponent? they have a word for it...it begins with an H.

Because of the electoral college Nader and Paul's candidacy means absolutely nothing to the major party candidates.

Hemorrhoid?

I owe you a quarter.

I think you have a basic misunderstanding of the electoral college.

Tom W

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

This is a link..I think you have a basic misunderstanding of my point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Electoral_College

If he's going to get so many Democratic votes then pick him to be the Democratic VP.

__________________
1985 300D Turbo
"Evolution is God's way of giving upgrades" Francis Collins

Your point presumes that those voters would have otherwise sat out the election. Doubtful.

No it doesn't. It presumes that people who will vote for Nader want to. If someone will choose Nader over a Democrat, then the Democrat couldn't get that vote. Maybe that person would've voted for the democrat had Nader not been there, but unless you are proposing that people should only have two choices, a vote for Nader is just that - a vote for Nader.



The electoral college doesn't have anything to do with the efficacy of 3rd party candidates (sort of). The established parties have rigged the game through impossible rules and gerrymandering to ensure that the choices the electoral college will have are either a Democrat or Republican Pres & VP. Although the purpose of the electoral college was to ensure that those in positions of power make the decisions, so in that respect the EC is part of the machine that keeps 3rd parties down.

__________________
1984 300TD

^^^ Perfect.

The electorial college, unless it has changed, is a winner take all electors on a state by state basis.

In Florida in 2000 the vote was so close that the Nader votes (IIRC) if they had swung mostly to Gore would have swung the state and Gore would have gotten all of the electorial votes and won the presidency.

Please explain how I am wrong about this. I don't think I am.

Tom W

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Gore is not Nader, hence the votes going to Nader. The votes don't belong to anyone but the voter, so Nader can't steal them away from one party. If they had swung to Gore, if they had split evenly, if some people had stayed home, etc. whatever is neither here nor there. Nader ran, some people liked him.

__________________
1984 300TD

You have a valid point of view.

My post was in response to Howies statement that with the electorial college Naders independent candidacy had no affect on the outcome. I think I am right about that.

You are right about your thought in an idealistic sense.

Tom W

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

That was my point, I assume that most people know that.

A lot of things could be said about Nader, many of them derrogatory, but he does stick to his guns which I reluctantly give him credit for. He, like most members of his (still Green?) Party, are as displeased with the Democratic Party as Democrats are with Republicans. The chances of him accepting the nomination as VP for the Democrats is hovering around exceptionally slim to none.

__________________

1980 300TD-China Blue/Blue MBTex-2nd Owner, 107K (Alt Blau) OBK #15
'06 Chevy Tahoe Z71 (for the wife & 4 kids, current mule) '03 Honda Odyssey (son #1's ride, reluctantly) '99 GMC Suburban (255K+ miles, semi-retired mule) 21' SeaRay Seville (summer escape pod)