I am wearly of the "he said/ she siad" , "lipstick" mentality of this campaign.
Obama proposes "Change". But so what? Candidates have been running on "Change" for years, and nothing changes. Ms Pelossi said she and the dems would change the way business was done in the "People's House", yet she has used all the power available to shut out republicans from any meaningful input. Thats, OK, its the way of "power", but it is NOT " Change".

Has Obama ever specified what "Change" he will produce? Can we believe him? Or will it simply be business as usual with a different set of people nominally in charge?

Please keep the ad homium attacks out of this thread. There are plenty of threads for those attacks. Can we keep this one centered on issues? Assuming there are any.

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

OK, so everyone prefers to talk about trivia.
DFon't complain whoever is elected.

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

It's about vision for me. Obama understands the world better than McCain, IMO. McCain is locked into an impossibly heroic and divinely destined view of America. It's been getting us in trouble ever since WW2, IMO.

Obama will put more resources towards energy research, he'll come up with a better plan on health, and he'll get us out of the stalemate of Iraq much sooner than McCain.

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Te futueo et caballum tuum

1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

You can't change Washington; you can vote for idiots who might/might not do a better job than others as far as keeping out of our lives. The Dems have the house and the senate, and we'd be a wise people to not give all three branches to one party - regardless if that party is Democrats or Republicans. It makes for really bad gov't.

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- Brian


1989 500SEL Euro
1966 250SE Cabriolet
1958 BMW Isetta 600

Do you mean like the way the Repos had all three branches from '01 through '06?

The demos are not going to have the SCOTUS any time soon, and I'm damned if I want to see another 4 years of a Repo pres perverting our system of checks and balances while Repos in the Senate set new records in filibustering, like they've been doing the last 2 years.

Conservatives are out of control in this country -- I chalk some of it up to Limbaugh and the rest to the Pat Robertson - like crowd. Buncha uber-fanatics.

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Te futueo et caballum tuum

1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

I will agree that the repubs in control of the White House, and Congress was a bad time. I disagree that there was anything of "Conservative" value in any of that. They grew government spending as wildly as any liberal ever could. To me, its a symptom of the greed that is pervasive in the country, today. There is very little of an attitude of service among our elected officials look at how much money they accumulate in and out of office?

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

.

You cannot call it a democracy if it is owned by big business.

McCain and oil money.
Obama and oil money..
All the oil money and government.


McCain and oil money
...

Wall Street Journal

"Indeed, McCain does lead all other senators,
and all others who ran for president, in contributions from the oil and gas industry,
according to the Center for Responsive Politics’ analysis of federal data in the 2007-08 election cycle.

McCain collected
$724,000 through May."

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/06/18/protester-drills-mccain-on-oil-money/
...

Washington Post

"Campaign contributions from oil industry executives to Sen. John McCain rose dramatically in the last half of June,
after the senator from Arizona made a high-profile split with environmentalists
and reversed his opposition to the federal ban on offshore drilling."

$116,000 in March,
$283,000 in April
$208,000 in May

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/26/AR2008072601891.html

...


Obama and oil money

...

Oil Company Total Individual Contributions

ExxonMobil $30,850
Hess $5,200
Shell $9,900
Conoco Philips $4,300
Chevron $9,500
BP $6396

Total $66,146

http://www.newsweek.com/id/129895/page/2

....

All the oil money and government

....

And here is a site that allows you to follow the oil money on all sides.
Not just McCain, and Obama

http://prezoilmoney.oilchangeusa.org/index.php


RichC

.

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When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.
Jimi Hendrix

Hard to disagree with any of that. Not that long ago, our country seemed like a beacon of integrity compared to some of the corrupt countries to our south.

Jon Stewart said something interesting the other night, that although public support of congress is what 10%, the re-election rate is something like 90% -- everybody tends to like their guy for bringing home pork but hates the rest of congress doing the same thing. Oversimplification, of course.

__________________
Te futueo et caballum tuum

1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

The acquisition of wealth has become (or maybe always was) an American ideal.

__________________
1984 300TD

And greed is one of the 7 deadly sins.

Lust
Anger
Pride
Envy
Greed
Gluttony
Sloth


RichC

.

__________________

When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.
Jimi Hendrix

As with most things, there is a measure of truth in what you say. However, there is also error of omission.-- In prior generations a Christian world-life view was dominant in the country. This is not to say that most people, or even a plurality were truly Christians, but that they lived with some sort of a conviction of future judgment. So the acquisition of wealth was often tempered with some giving back to the community. Henry Ford would be one example. He was a thoroughly complex man; sometimes appearing to be the simple idealist, while other times employing harsh business practices--certainly not a Christian. He employed minorities when it was not popular, but hated bankers, many of whom were Jewish, and published, w/o a copyright, the "World Wide Jew"--a scurrilous series if there ever was one. He accumulated fabulous wealth, yet shared with his employees much more than was common at the time. His reasoning for the $5 day was simplicity--The production lines methods had lowered his costs, and he passed that savings on to his customers. They, in turn, made him wealthy. But what of the employees? He felt it only fair to share the wealth with them, and granted a $5 day wage. It was somewhat more complicated than that, and served to reduce absenteeism, but it was about twice the prevailing industry wage. No one forced him to do it; he just felt it was the right thing to do.
There are similar examples of modern companies that are good to their employees; but less and less as time goes on, it seems.
Instead popular culture is all about accumulation of wealth w/o regard to legality or anything other than greed--or so it seems to me.

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

There is little substance in either of the two parties that wasn't given to them by their electorate. They continue to follow the well worn paths of successful and failed polices, referring to them as wonderful and in need of expansion, or abominations in need of reform, not because of their results of those policies, but because of their own alliances with the arguments that preceded their passage. They prefer to pound round pegs into square holes since they said it would work, than to loose face and do what's right for the governed.

__________________
-Marty

1986 300E 220,000 miles+ transmission impossible
(Now waiting under a bridge in order to become one)

Reading your M103 duty cycle:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/831799-post13.html
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/831807-post14.html

Yes, he has. The best source for substantive information I've found is PBS. I just watched a program that gave both candidates in depth interviews. They had a website on the screen, I'm not sure if you can read transcripts or see video there, but it's www.servicenation.org .
Additionally, Obama at least has appeared on The Newshour, which he did shortly before his trip overseas. McCain was extended an invite to rebut, but I haven't seen him on yet. It is possible I missed it. PBS will also run specials on both candidates some time in late September.

McCain's been less accessible for national media, despite all the town halls he's done. Maybe CSPAN has been carrying them, I don't have cable so I don't kow.

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1984 300TD

Politicians have substance?

ok...so there might be a few out there, who are still under the illusion that their fellow politicians have the country's best interest in mind, instead of their own.

The kind of person that wants to be a politician in todays world of Politics, is not the kind of person that you should trust... except you can trust that they will find a way to put their hand in your pocket. Everything else, is secondary - including the rest of the world. Greedy, arrogant, ignorant, self serving/centered, bags of rhetoric consisting of hot air and BS. The older I get, the more I loathe hearing about them, and even more so listening to them.
They need to be replaced - all of them....start from scratch with new people, selected by a computer program, not by the people, because unfortunately, the people believe most of the aural vomit they spew forth, and will vote for whatever propaganda machine they believe most, and not for the best person for the job.
Most of the media circus is for entertainment, and to obfuscate the truth - that our politicians, are as ethically corrupt as the propaganda machine used to have us believe the Russian politicians were, back in the 70's & 80's.

Sorry for my rant...every now and then, I have to let it out. Now I am good again for a week or so.

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It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so. Robert A. Heinlein


09 Jetta TDI
1985 300D

My politician is less conniving, sneaking, and lying than yours. Vote for mine.