Game over, GM in Chapter 11... - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

WVOtoGO · #46 06-02-2009, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

It was the unions that had an indirect effect by making the cost of each car $2000 more because it was built in a union shop vs across the road by Mitsu, Yoda, etc, etc. $2000 is a huge hurdle to overcome when you consider the "bread and butter" cars. Now if we are talking Maybach, sure. On a 15K car, it is huge.

I agree.

But I wouldn't call it "indirect".

tankdriver · #47 06-02-2009, 10:26 AM

$2000 less on the price tag doesn't make it a better car. Or a streamlined company. I always see so much grousing about the UAW but never any about redundant white collar positions or lousy engineering designs. I guess it's a lot easier since there's no 3 letter shortcut for useless middle management. I wonder how much they added to the cost of every car. Strangely, no one's seemed to have counted it.

#48 06-02-2009, 10:34 AM

tank I belive that everyone has been complaining about the crappy engineering for years and I for one as have many others complained about it. Also been complaining about the crappy management.

Skid Row Joe · #49 06-02-2009, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselAddict

....But I understand that balancing the budget can't always be the #1 priority.

What does a budget matter, when taxpayer dollars to the tune of $19,000,000,000 dollars (so far) already have been spent as welfare payments to them?

Skid Row Joe · #50 06-02-2009, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by helpplease

tank I belive that everyone has been complaining about the crappy engineering for years and I for one as have many others complained about it. Also been complaining about the crappy management.

I wised-up in 1977.

That's all it took for me to realize I would never buy another crappy one from gm. Some still haven't caught on, apparently.

aklim · #51 06-02-2009, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tankdriver

$2000 less on the price tag doesn't make it a better car. Or a streamlined company.

When the product COST is $2000 more on a sub 20K car, it is significant. It means that for what it costs you to build, your competitor can build the same car and add $2000 more in refinements to it and still sell it for the same price.

DieselAddict · #52 06-02-2009, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

OK. So what has changed besides some faces in Congress and in the White House? I haven't noticed any changes in my life where it was more complex before the govt helped and now it is simpler and better without some sort of price we pay at the end.

What did you expect? That Obama will send someone to your house to cook you meals? Other than the debt (which has been going up significantly since Bush took over) I generally like the changes the new govt has made so far.

DieselAddict · #53 06-02-2009, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj67coll

Here you have a government with a majority interest in the company, in bed with the unions and no reason why they wont simply keep bailing them out down the road.

- Peter.

It seems like you haven't been paying much attention. I can think of at least one union that the Obama administration has irritated: the teachers' union. As to the UAW, I wouldn't call them being in bed with the govt either. The UAW just signed major concessions, and if the govt has its way, they'll make more cuts in GM's budget to cut costs.

ImBroke · #54 06-02-2009, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Problem is that while they were profitable, they were steadily losing market share. This economy accelerated their demise a little faster. Sooner or later, it would have come to this. I mean, how can you continue to be profitable when you are losing market share on a daily basis?

True, my point was that Nike has a 100 year plan, while I believe our automakers had more like a 1 year plan. You cannot be shortsighted in a global economy, and it bit them in the ass. Whoever said a Focus was a good car better look into the SOHC 4 bangers. I have a dead one right now, that the valve seat broke, sending pieces into the piston destroying the motor. Still waiting on the junkyard to find another motor for less than 1k (because they fail so often). Have not had any experience with the DOHC ZTEC's yet. How bout the Quad 4's that puke their coolant into the oil, got one of them too. New head gasket didn't fix that one. IMO, the American companies haven't figured out the 4 bangers yet, so I'll keep driving the Honda.

dannym · #55 06-02-2009, 02:43 PM

In my opinion the UAW has noone to blame than themselves.
Back in the day when American cars were plentiful & cheap the UAW held a lot of power up in Detriot. They got excessive wages, benefits & retirement plans. Which was OK then, good for them.
Now it's a different story. Their fighting for their lives and the UAW needs to wake up and see that they don't hold the business end of the gun anymore. They need to take pay cuts & work less hours until the economy comes back. Then maybe they can get back to decent not excessive wages.
Much like the iron/metal industry has done.

It kills me when they say they can't live if they take a pay cut into their $120,000 salaries. Especially considering most of them do a job a monkey can be trained to do. It's not like their college educated.
Everybody's living above their means. Whatever happened to saving for a rainy day? Well, it's raining!

Rant over

Danny

pj67coll · #56 06-02-2009, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselAddict

As to the UAW, I wouldn't call them being in bed with the govt either. The UAW just signed major concessions, and if the govt has its way, they'll make more cuts in GM's budget to cut costs.

My mistake. I meant to say in bed with the Democrats rather than the government as a whole. As for making major concessions. Too little too late. They still exist which means the company will still be stuck with an albatross round it's as it attempts to "reinvent" itself.

- Peter.

aklim · #57 06-02-2009, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselAddict

What did you expect? That Obama will send someone to your house to cook you meals?

I generally like the changes the new govt has made so far.

Hopefully not. Otherwise, it will be late, bad and I will have to fill out 300 forms just to take a sniff of it. Where is our tobacco windfall money? Why do I still have to wait at the drive thru for the pharmacist to ask if I have any questions for my 100th refill? Why is medicare billing still such a huge mess that is paying less and asking for more? You wanna talk about the Ethanol problems?

Such as? Sure, I like his stand on abortion and stem cell research but what else has been accomplished so far?

aklim · #58 06-02-2009, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselAddict

It seems like you haven't been paying much attention. I can think of at least one union that the Obama administration has irritated: the teachers' union. As to the UAW, I wouldn't call them being in bed with the govt either. The UAW just signed major concessions, and if the govt has its way, they'll make more cuts in GM's budget to cut costs.

Well, they were calling our place to vote for Obama because the wife works in a union hospital. Guess they will be disappointed at their investment.

Da Nag · #59 06-02-2009, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannym

It's not like their college educated.

Sentence of the day.

DieselAddict · #60 06-02-2009, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Hopefully not. Otherwise, it will be late, bad and I will have to fill out 300 forms just to take a sniff of it. Where is our tobacco windfall money? Why do I still have to wait at the drive thru for the pharmacist to ask if I have any questions for my 100th refill? Why is medicare billing still such a huge mess that is paying less and asking for more? You wanna talk about the Ethanol problems?

Such as? Sure, I like his stand on abortion and stem cell research but what else has been accomplished so far?

Your opinions may be different, but I think the stimulus bill was overall a good thing. I also like the new single federal mileage standard for cars that will at least for now replace a patchwork of different state rules. I also like that Obama banned torture and re-focused on Afghanistan and Pakistan. I'm still waiting to see what comes out on health care. If we had a single payer health care system like in other countries, you wouldn't have those billing issues that you mentioned. Sadly, the single-payer system is currently off the table, apparently due to strong lobbying by health insurance companies. But at least a govt plan to compete with private health insurance is supposedly in the works. I'll definitely examine it if and when it comes out. But we're getting off-topic...