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  #106  
Old 07-23-2009, 05:11 PM
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None of the issues in the piece about Crowley address what could be the racial profiling in this case. The racism, if it occurred, might not have been associated with Crowley but with the neighbors who made the initial report of a possible burglary. What does Crowley teach in his class about those kinds of situations? If the racism does not come directly from the cop, what is the cop's responsibility in defusing racial tensions? It seems likely to me that a black man forcing his own front door in a predominantly white neighborhood is more likely to be reported to police than a white man doing the same thing.
I'd like to know more about the neighbor. Has she talked to Gates about what she did? What did she say? Did they know each other before?

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  #107  
Old 07-23-2009, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Medmech View Post
So as a lawyer you are saying that a suspect of a crime which Gates was when the officer asked for identification is not a legal duty...hooo boy, I can smell the pepper spray from here.
I don't know the answer to that question. It's been about 15 years since I read those cases. There are certain situations where you have a duty to provide ID - when driving a car, for example - but I don't think that suspects have a duty to identify themselves. If they fail to identify themselves, they might find themselves being detained, but that would only be if there were some other basis for that detention.

I would also note that Gates' arrest was not based on a failure to provide ID. He provided ID. His arrest, AFAIK, was based on his being rude to the cop.
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  #108  
Old 07-23-2009, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by rwthomas1 View Post
Gates is an *********...
Which is his right.
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  #109  
Old 07-23-2009, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by kerry View Post
None of the issues in the piece about Crowley address what could be the racial profiling in this case. The racism, if it occurred, might not have been associated with Crowley but with the neighbors who made the initial report of a possible burglary. What does Crowley teach in his class about those kinds of situations? If the racism does not come directly from the cop, what is the cop's responsibility in defusing racial tensions? It seems likely to me that a black man forcing his own front door in a predominantly white neighborhood is more likely to be reported to police than a white man doing the same thing.
I'd like to know more about the neighbor. Has she talked to Gates about what she did? What did she say? Did they know each other before?

Ah...The hammer strikes the head of the nail......

Mightn't the "profiling" have been in the reporting, more than in the response? As for the response, seems like both sides acted "stupidly". Unfortunately, one side is a paid representative of the people, and the other is a man in his own home. Maybe someone needs to start teaching classes about proper police response to upset innocents.
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  #110  
Old 07-23-2009, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Chas H View Post
No he wasn't.
How did you ascertain that? According to the police report, he was OUTSIDE the house and creating a ruckus in front of other cops and bystanders. Or are you disputing that report which probably has half a dozen witnesses?
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  #111  
Old 07-23-2009, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Chas H View Post
Really, a cop should never believe a black man.
A cop should make sure whether it is a black man, white man, red man, green man or blue man. But as you were asked, how that believing thing work out for Jeffery Dahlmer's victims? Cops believed that guy without asking for proof and where did it get them?
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  #112  
Old 07-23-2009, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by kerry View Post
I'd like to know more about the neighbor. Has she talked to Gates about what she did? What did she say? Did they know each other before?
From what I can see, the neighbor doesn't know Gates from Adam.
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  #113  
Old 07-23-2009, 05:46 PM
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I listened to the interview, IMHO Gates is a racist, and played the race card.

OK, thats no reason to arrest him, although I think there are places you can be arrested for racial comments.



BUT
We need to reverse this, it's not a racial issue
ONE WAY OR ANOTHER THE OFFICER AND ALL OFFICERS SHOULD BE TREATED WITH RESPECT.

I don't care if they are right, wrong or whatever for questioning you THEY SHOULD BE TREATED WITH RESPECT FIRST AND FOREMOST.
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  #114  
Old 07-23-2009, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by kknudson View Post
I listened to the interview, IMHO Gates is a racist, and played the race card.

OK, thats no reason to arrest him, although I think there are places you can be arrested for racial comments.



BUT
We need to reverse this, it's not a racial issue
ONE WAY OR ANOTHER THE OFFICER AND ALL OFFICERS SHOULD BE TREATED WITH RESPECT.

I don't care if they are right, wrong or whatever for questioning you THEY SHOULD BE TREATED WITH RESPECT FIRST AND FOREMOST.

Maybe they should be, but still doesn't mean that you should be arrested if you don't. ESPECIALLY IN YOUR OWN HOME!!!

Different circumstances, and many here would have advocated blowing the cop away for entering the home without a warrant or permission of the tenant. Man's home is his castle. Let's see this policeman try this technique on a white guy in Texas.
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  #115  
Old 07-23-2009, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by dculkin View Post
Which is his right.
Being an ******* to cops is not a right.
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  #116  
Old 07-23-2009, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by cmbdiesel View Post
Maybe they should be, but still doesn't mean that you should be arrested if you don't. ESPECIALLY IN YOUR OWN HOME!!!

Different circumstances, and many here would have advocated blowing the cop away for entering the home without a warrant or permission of the tenant. Man's home is his castle. Let's see this policeman try this technique on a white guy in Texas.
Unless you are saying that the report of people witnessing the scene is a lie, he was OUTSIDE and not inside. Inside, he was creating a ruckus and the officer announced his intention to leave the premises. He took it outside and created another scene and was told to calm down TWICE and refused. What else is there?
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  #117  
Old 07-23-2009, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by aklim View Post
How did you ascertain that? According to the police report, he was OUTSIDE the house and creating a ruckus in front of other cops and bystanders. Or are you disputing that report which probably has half a dozen witnesses?
The porch is part of the house and private property.
The charges against Gates were dropped. Why is that?
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  #118  
Old 07-23-2009, 06:02 PM
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Cop who arrested black scholar is profiling expert

Jul 23 03:17 PM US/Eastern
By DENISE LAVOIE
Associated Press Writer

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. (AP) - The white police sergeant criticized by President Barack Obama for arresting black scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. in his Massachusetts home is a police academy expert on racial profiling.
Cambridge Sgt. James Crowley has taught a class on racial profiling for five years at the Lowell Police Academy after being hand-picked for the job by former police Commissioner Ronny Watson, who is black, said Academy Director Thomas Fleming.

"I have nothing but the highest respect for him as a police officer. He is very professional and he is a good role model for the young recruits in the police academy," Fleming told The Associated Press on Thursday.

The course, called "Racial Profiling," teaches about different cultures that officers could encounter in their community "and how you don't want to single people out because of their ethnic background or the culture they come from," Fleming said.

Obama has said the Cambridge officers "acted stupidly" in arresting Gates last week when they responded to his house after a woman reported a suspected break-in.

Crowley, 42, has maintained he did nothing wrong and has refused to apologize, as Gates has demanded.

Crowley responded to Gates' home near Harvard University last week to investigate a report of a burglary and demanded Gates show him identification. Police say Gates at first refused, flew into a rage and accused the officer of racism.

Gates was charged with disorderly conduct. The charge was dropped Tuesday.

Gates' supporters maintain his arrest was a case of racial profiling. Officers were called to the home by a woman who said she saw "two black males with backpacks" trying to break in the front door. Gates has said he arrived home from an overseas trip and the door was jammed.

Obama was asked about the arrest of Gates, who is his friend, at the end of a nationally televised news conference on health care Wednesday night.

"I think it's fair to say, No. 1, any of us would be pretty angry," Obama said. "No. 2, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home. And No. 3—what I think we know separate and apart from this incident—is that there is a long history in this country of African-Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately, and that's just a fact."

In radio interviews Thursday morning, Crowley maintained he followed procedure.

"I support the president of the United States 110 percent. I think he was way off base wading into a local issue without knowing all the facts as he himself stated before he made that comment," Crowley told WBZ-AM. "I guess a friend of mine would support my position, too."

Crowley did not immediately respond to messages left Thursday by the AP. The Cambridge police department scheduled a news conference for later Thursday.

Gates has said he was "outraged" by the arrest. He said the white officer walked into his home without his permission and only arrested him as the professor followed him to the porch, repeatedly demanding the sergeant's name and badge number because he was unhappy over his treatment.

"This isn't about me; this is about the vulnerability of black men in America," Gates said.

He said the incident made him realize how vulnerable poor people and minorities are "to capricious forces like a rogue policeman, and this man clearly was a rogue policeman."

The president said federal officials need to continue working with local law enforcement "to improve policing techniques so that we're eliminating potential bias."

Fellow officers, black and white, say Crowley is well-liked and respected on the force. Crowley was a campus police officer at Brandeis University in July 1993 when he administered CPR trying to save the life of former Boston Celtics player Reggie Lewis. Lewis, who was black, collapsed and died during an off-season workout.

Gov. Deval Patrick, who is black, said he was troubled and upset over the incident. Cambridge Mayor Denise Simmons, who also is black, has said she spoke with Gates and apologized on behalf of the city, and a statement from the city called the July 16 incident "regrettable and unfortunate."

The mayor refused Thursday to comment on the president's remarks.

Police supporters charge that Gates, director of Harvard's W.E.B. Du Bois Institute for African and African American Research, was responsible for his own arrest by overreacting.

Black students and professors at Harvard have complained for years about racial profiling by Cambridge and campus police. Harvard commissioned an independent committee last year to examine the university's race relations after campus police confronted a young black man who was using tools to remove a bike lock. The man worked at Harvard and owned the bike.
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  #119  
Old 07-23-2009, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Medmech View Post
Being an ******* to cops is not a right.
Which is why the cops are rightly in trouble.
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  #120  
Old 07-23-2009, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Chas H View Post
The porch is part of the house and private property.
The charges against Gates were dropped. Why is that?
Because of the media ruckus, Rodney Kings charges were dropped despite the 100+ MPH car chase before the beating.

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