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  #1  
Old 09-12-2009, 03:02 PM
cmac2012's Avatar
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Anybody use hot tar to fill driveway cracks?

One of my best clients wants me to fill a buncha cracks in her driveway with hot tar. Her place is on a bit of a hill and the soil/substrate probably wasn't prepared properly for the driveway. Her feeling is that water migration is slowly undermining it, making the cracking worse. She might me right. Re-doing it with proper preparation is of course the way to go but she wants to wait for more funds as she has other stuff that's more pressing.

The kind of equipment needed for this is not likely to be easily available at rental yards, methinks.

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Old 09-12-2009, 03:36 PM
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Talking *** All you need is feathers!!!! ***

The best I've ever been able to do is the stuff out of a bottle...spent the day and one afternoon doing a simple 50'/2-car-wide strip...a lot of sand (to back-fill up the washed-out underlayment and get some sort of support back under the pavement/asphalt to keep it from sagging when weight is on it...) and about 7 bottles of "liquid crack filler" from the local MENARDS.

The prep work was the worst...that took about 3 days (I'd put the sand in the cracks, then "wet it" to get it to settle in the crack, then re-fill the crack with sand...sorta' like the filling you do with a paver-block walkway or patio...which is where I got the idea from...) - THEN the day-and-a-half with the tar-bottles...

I go by the place every now and then...the guy living there now just seal-coats the surface...haven't seen him rip-up the old and lay down new...

I did this back in '90. Not too shabby...eh?

But, I suspect your project is a bit larger, right?

I'd see what she has for traffic up there too...even if the sub-surface was properly put in (and you already suspect/confirmed that it's marginal, at best), if she has cement trucks running up and down the drive and it was only designed/built for Yugo-sized/weighted cars, regardless how good a job YOU do, she'll be pointing a finger at you and saying what a crappy job you did fixing it back up...

I'd think twice (and run) before I'd take on that project...unless she wants to sign a waiver (yeah...like those things are lawyer-proof! ) where you spell out the foolishness of doing anything until the foundation/sub-surface has been improved.

And, yeah, you're right...rental yards aren't setup for the DIYer-driveway asphalt paving projects...something about "Joe Weekender", hot-asphalt tar, mixing of stones and the running of a roller over the mix gets the insurance companies a little edgy, I suspect...
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'10 - Dakota SXT - Daily Ride / ≈ 172.5K
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..'77 - 280E - 123.033.12 / > 128.20 K
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.....'87 - G20 Sportvan / > 206.00 K
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  #3  
Old 09-12-2009, 04:08 PM
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How bad is it? Just a few cracks, or are there holes?

I've had great luck using a product similer to

Half an inch doesnt need anything, any bigger, stuff it with backer rod (Styrofoam mini log thing)

It doesnt seem to do well if its not allowed to seep less then about 3/4" into the blacktop. I sprayed water down the cracks then scrubbed with a stiff broom...

Its like $7 per gallon... SHAKE WELL BEFORE USING!!! Let it sit in the hot sun too...
~Nate
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  #4  
Old 09-12-2009, 04:12 PM
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After the crack filler, do you then use a standard sealer on top? And how about sand for a filler?

If you can't guess, I too have a driveway that needs some attention.
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  #5  
Old 09-12-2009, 04:26 PM
mgburg's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt L View Post
After the crack filler, do you then use a standard sealer on top? And how about sand for a filler? ... If you can't guess, I too have a driveway that needs some attention.
That's what I did...filled the crack up to the point of being able to use the bottle-stuff...just like the directions said.

Using "stuffing" didn't make any sense to me...I just put back in the crack what had come out...sand/dirt...but more sand than dirt.

After the filler had some time to setup, then I did the whole driveway with sealer...that made everything "blend in" better.

Would I do it again?

If I was 25 years younger...and a little more brain-damaged...

There was a lot of time invested (not counting the seal-coating)...if I remember correctly, it ran me (just the crack-fixing), out of pocket, about $90 for material...time was 5 days and ALOT of time at the sink cleaning up...that ch!t doesn't come off your hands too easily...
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M. G. Burg
'10 - Dakota SXT - Daily Ride / ≈ 172.5K
.'76 - 450SLC - 107.024.12 / < .89.20 K
..'77 - 280E - 123.033.12 / > 128.20 K
...'67 - El Camino - 283ci / > 207.00 K
....'75 - Yamaha - 650XS / < 21.00 K
.....'87 - G20 Sportvan / > 206.00 K
......'85 - 4WINNS 160 I.O. / 140hp
.......'74 - Honda CT70 / Real 125

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“I didn’t really say everything I said.”
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ~ Yogi Berra ~
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  #6  
Old 09-12-2009, 07:25 PM
Hatterasguy's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate View Post
How bad is it? Just a few cracks, or are there holes?

I've had great luck using a product similer to

Half an inch doesnt need anything, any bigger, stuff it with backer rod (Styrofoam mini log thing)

It doesnt seem to do well if its not allowed to seep less then about 3/4" into the blacktop. I sprayed water down the cracks then scrubbed with a stiff broom...

Its like $7 per gallon... SHAKE WELL BEFORE USING!!! Let it sit in the hot sun too...
~Nate


That sounds like the way to go. I'd just use the cheap stuff because no matter what you do its going to crack again.

It needs to be repaved as you know, and properly prepped. Sounds like they didn't put any process below it.
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  #7  
Old 09-12-2009, 10:49 PM
cmac2012's Avatar
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Some good advice here. I knew I wasn't going to get the professional hot tar trailer setup, you have to hire that action, too much danger for the average joe to do it. I just realized that I forgot to mention that the existing driveway is concrete. So if I can seal the cracks well, water migration could be slowed quite a bit. One hopes.

I read something somewhere about some rope like strands of tar you could buy, you'd stuff them in the crack and then get one of those torch down propane torches and melt the stuff in place. I'm interested in hot tar instead of the cold pour in stuff cause I want it to set up fast and not daub off on tires when she drives over it - her and a tenant she has in the basement apt.

I might end up going the cold stuff route and then apply mucho sand to mitigate the moving it around problem. I also thought about using the Henry's roof type tar that comes in caulking tubes. Might not be the best compound for it though.

I really don't want this job but she gives me a lot of work, partly because I do most everything she wants me to do. Neat lady - from Argh-entina.
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Last edited by cmac2012; 09-12-2009 at 10:54 PM.
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  #8  
Old 09-13-2009, 04:38 AM
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There's one thing that the road crews are doing up here for the past 3 or 4 years...

When sealing the cracks, you have the one guy, air gun in hand, removing the schmutz from the cracks, then the next guy or 3 are the ones with the HOT-TAR-WAND and hose-wranglers...they do their thing, then the last guy in the band is the TP-guy.

YEP...the Toilet-Paper guy...

He has what looks like a paint-roller on the end of a stick, and he just pops on a roll of squeezable Charmin, then he rolls the paper over the fresh tar's surface...so the cars press the stuff into the tar and don't pick up the tar and re-paint the rocker-panels...

Maybe you can do the same with her driveway...use the 2-ply and let her know it's a trick you saw a crew on the highway doing...it will keep the tar from spreading to the bottom of the shoes and she won't have to worry about it being tracked into the house...and the TP is "earth/tree friendly" so eventually, it will disappear.

As for the concrete...is she talking about replacing the concrete (when she has the money) with new concrete or is she thinking about going the asphalt route?

Either way...proper prep and foundational improvements will definately be the order for the day...

GL!!!
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M. G. Burg
'10 - Dakota SXT - Daily Ride / ≈ 172.5K
.'76 - 450SLC - 107.024.12 / < .89.20 K
..'77 - 280E - 123.033.12 / > 128.20 K
...'67 - El Camino - 283ci / > 207.00 K
....'75 - Yamaha - 650XS / < 21.00 K
.....'87 - G20 Sportvan / > 206.00 K
......'85 - 4WINNS 160 I.O. / 140hp
.......'74 - Honda CT70 / Real 125

.
“I didn’t really say everything I said.”
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ~ Yogi Berra ~
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  #9  
Old 09-13-2009, 11:06 AM
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Most of our native soil in the Bay Area is highly expansive. Each summer, the grassy hillsides in my area crack into 8" x 8" hexagons with 3/4" spacings as the winter moisture is baked out.

If the gal will let you use a bitumen product that is probably best as it will adhere better and remain more flexible.

I used a flexible concrete patch on 1/4" x 4" cracks on my driveway. A lot of it was applied using a masons grout bag. It looked pretty good for a year or two but as the soil becomes saturated expansion and contraction pulls things apart again.

Flexibilty in concrete is a relative term.
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  #10  
Old 09-13-2009, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgburg View Post
That's what I did...filled the crack up to the point of being able to use the bottle-stuff...just like the directions said.

Using "stuffing" didn't make any sense to me...I just put back in the crack what had come out...sand/dirt...but more sand than dirt.

After the filler had some time to setup, then I did the whole driveway with sealer...that made everything "blend in" better.

Would I do it again?

If I was 25 years younger...and a little more brain-damaged...

There was a lot of time invested (not counting the seal-coating)...if I remember correctly, it ran me (just the crack-fixing), out of pocket, about $90 for material...time was 5 days and ALOT of time at the sink cleaning up...that ch!t doesn't come off your hands too easily...
Wear gloves...


I just stuffed the stuffing down there so it didnt eat 2 gallons of stuff... Dont know if i needed too or not. Doesnt scrub off on tires driving over, mabey if you turn when not moving...

~Nate
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  #11  
Old 09-13-2009, 03:53 PM
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Home Depot has some stuff that you can use with a caulk gun. I have used it for small cracks and it works pretty well. But it is quite hard to get it to come out of the tube even with a caulk gun.
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  #12  
Old 09-13-2009, 11:42 PM
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Its $7? per tube, and each tube has less then a quart of tar... A gallon of tar thats in a bottle costs the same amount.

I used the calking stuff, it was too hard for my WI climate, and did not bold well to the blacktop...

~Nate
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  #13  
Old 09-14-2009, 12:30 AM
cmac2012's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgburg View Post
There's one thing that the road crews are doing up here for the past 3 or 4 years...

When sealing the cracks, you have the one guy, air gun in hand, removing the schmutz from the cracks, then the next guy or 3 are the ones with the HOT-TAR-WAND and hose-wranglers...they do their thing, then the last guy in the band is the TP-guy.

YEP...the Toilet-Paper guy...

He has what looks like a paint-roller on the end of a stick, and he just pops on a roll of squeezable Charmin, then he rolls the paper over the fresh tar's surface...so the cars press the stuff into the tar and don't pick up the tar and re-paint the rocker-panels...

Maybe you can do the same with her driveway...use the 2-ply and let her know it's a trick you saw a crew on the highway doing...it will keep the tar from spreading to the bottom of the shoes and she won't have to worry about it being tracked into the house...and the TP is "earth/tree friendly" so eventually, it will disappear.

As for the concrete...is she talking about replacing the concrete (when she has the money) with new concrete or is she thinking about going the asphalt route?

Either way...proper prep and foundational improvements will definitely be the order for the day...

GL!!!
Interesting idea. TP, I mean.

Re your earlier remark, it will only be the lightest of traffic on this driveway.

She'll go with concrete I'm almost certain. The place is pretty stylish and the broomed, pebble surface 'crete is more groovy than asphalt. But it would need major improvement on the soil foundation, IMO, probably going down quite a ways and replacing it with stones, busted crete, and gravel.

Probably outside my experience.
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  #14  
Old 09-14-2009, 12:45 AM
cmac2012's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMAllison View Post
Most of our native soil in the Bay Area is highly expansive. Each summer, the grassy hillsides in my area crack into 8" x 8" hexagons with 3/4" spacings as the winter moisture is baked out.

If the gal will let you use a bitumen product that is probably best as it will adhere better and remain more flexible.

I used a flexible concrete patch on 1/4" x 4" cracks on my driveway. A lot of it was applied using a masons grout bag. It looked pretty good for a year or two but as the soil becomes saturated expansion and contraction pulls things apart again.

Flexibility in concrete is a relative term.
She previously had some sort of hot tar applied to the cracks but that was starting to deteriorate and didn't look like it was sealing much of anything. So is bitumen a sort of tar that is solid at room temp and must be heated?

I was thinking about using the Henry's brand black tar-like caulking. As Nate mentioned, it's bound to be more spendy than something available in bulk but with the caulking delivery method, I'm thinking I could be more tidy.

But the Henry's stuff might not be good for driveways, and it stays wet for a while, a day or two.
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  #15  
Old 09-14-2009, 01:24 AM
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Here's a trippy looking product I found on Home Despot's website:

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xr5/R-100084640/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

Looks like the rope-like, heat-able tar sort of product I wanted.

However, holy crap, best I can gather from the website, it's an available online only product. Oh, I'd just love ordering two of them and then discovering that I really needed three. I've never seen this on the shelves at HD, come to think of it.

I went to the Manf. website and the only dealers they show within 100 miles of me is HD. Damn.

Here's a site I found using the name w/o the brand name, the Latex-ite part. A shot of it in use. Might be the same product. Online order:

http://www.drivingcomfort.com/pli-stix-crack-filler.cfm

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Last edited by cmac2012; 09-14-2009 at 01:36 AM.
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