Absolute BS. - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Hatterasguy · #1 11-24-2009, 08:45 PM

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,576646,00.html

A Seal gives this sack of crap a bloody lip and gets in trouble over it? You can't fight any war like this.

t walgamuth · #2 11-24-2009, 09:16 PM

So you just take the fox news story at face value?

Why not let the trial take its course before passing judgment?

mgburg · #3 11-24-2009, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

So you just take the fox news story at face value? ...

Probably because the story contained the allegation by the victim and it listed the 3 "defendants" and even went so far as to mention at least 2 or 3 more people that could possibly get their knickers twisted in this PC-ladened pile of BS.

But hey! We're here to apologize to anyone that looks cross-eyed at us for the past 200+ years or so...

OH! WAIT! We haven't quite finished apologizing to the Natives that Christopher Columbus infected when he stumbled on the shores of North America before it became known as such...right?

Or, do we need to go back to Amerigo Vespucci? That should be the trip-point for apologies...or is it the Vikings?

Who knows?

Hatterasguy · #4 11-24-2009, 11:30 PM

I read the story, whats not true? They may be leaving facts out, but as it stands Navy Seals are in trouble for giving this sack of crap a bloody nose. Screw that, hand him over to the Mossad for some proper treatment.

I hope they are leaving facts out.

#5 11-24-2009, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

I read the story, try reading it. Whats not true? Navy Seals are in trouble for giving this sack of crap a bloody nose. Screw that, hand him over to the Mossad for some proper treatment.

I read it, but I have no idea if its true or not. I would not respond to a fox story unless I saw it confirmed elsewhere; they have no credibility.

mgburg · #6 11-24-2009, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

I read it, but I have no idea if its true or not. I would not respond to a fox story unless I saw it confirmed elsewhere; they have no credibility.

Your loss...

Hatterasguy · #7 11-24-2009, 11:36 PM

BBC hasn't picked it up yet. I wonder whats really going on?

Nate · #8 11-24-2009, 11:35 PM

There's no punishment worse enough that can be infliced through trial for Mr Abed, and the seal knows this.

I'd take a pay cut for a few months to punch that guy too. I hope that's all that happens.

Dont assault the POW, or take funny pictures of them...
Lesson learned

Next...
~Nate

strelnik · #9 11-24-2009, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

So you just take the fox news story at face value?

Why not let the trial take its course before passing judgment?

In cases where the politically gun-shy military is afraid they will be criticized, they offer non-judicial punishment under Article 15 of the Uniform Code of Militarty Justice.

It's like copping a plea to a lesser charge.

These guys are not going to be grist for someone's mill, so they called the JAG's bluff, refused the plea deal and want a trial.

Some lower-level commanders, like captains, use that to keep people in line because they don't know how to lead and manage people. Those guys are so inept you want to call their bluff.

The next step is an Article 32 investigation. The results of the investigation could include a recommendation that these charges be dropped, which I suspect, has a good chance of happening unless they broke every bone in this guy's body.

This is the way that military commanders who fear political retribution from the Beltway cover their ass.

Yes it sucks, but it is one of the safeguards that prevent stupid things from happening. Every time there's an Abu Ghraib, the military over reacts in response to congress, because the military leaders are always trying to "get along..." They fear the purse string power of Congress and the ability of the Senate to hold up officer nominations.

Face it: most generals are non-confrontational, they are like Colin Powell. Sometimes you need Patton. The trick is to mix styles and most generals are just interested in getting ahead and retiring. The guys like GEN Shalikashvili and GEN Hagee (USMC) are past history now.,

If you didn't know, more senior ranks in the Army, Navy etc have to be approved by the Congress. There's a limit to how many generals, colonels etc etc you can have on active duty at any one time.

That's why right now a certain number of jobs are fiulled with what are called "promotables." People who are promotable but not approved by Congress.

So a colonel/O-6 migtht be a COL(P) awaiting his/her first star, and do the job as a colonel and get paid as a colonel... for months.

It's like getting the promotion promise from your boss and never getting the promo.....

There's a lot of ways Congress screws with the military, even the enlisted.

dynalow · #10 11-25-2009, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strelnik

In cases where the politically gun-shy military is afraid they will be criticized, they offer non-judicial punishment under Article 15 of the Uniform Code of Militarty Justice.

It's like copping a plea to a lesser charge.

These guys are not going to be grist for someone's mill, so they called the JAG's bluff, refused the plea deal and want a trial.

Some lower-level commanders, like captains, use that to keep people in line because they don't know how to lead and manage people. Those guys are so inept you want to call their bluff.

http://www.navytimes.com/news/2009/11/UPnavy_seals_charged_112409w/

SEALs charged in alleged assault of detainee

By Gidget Fuentes - Staff writer
Posted : Tuesday Nov 24, 2009 17:41:46 EST

SAN DIEGO — Three Navy SEALs are facing court-martial for allegedly assaulting and mishandling a detainee they captured in Iraq in September, military officials said.

The three SEALs — Special Warfare Operators 2nd Class Matthew McCabe and Jonathan Keefe, and SO1 Julio Huertas — will be arraigned Dec. 7 in a military court in Norfolk, Va., said Army Lt. Col. Holly Silkman, a spokeswoman with U.S. Special Operations Command Central.

McCabe is charged with one count each of assault of the detainee, dereliction of duty and making a false official statement, Silkman said. Officials accuse McCabe of “willfully failing to safeguard a detainee,” Silkman said.

Keefe is charge with one count each of dereliction of duty and false official statement; Huertas is accused of dereliction of duty, false official statement and impeding an investigation, she said.

Army Maj. Gen. Charles Cleveland, SOCCent commander, preferred the charges against the SEALs and will serve as the convening authority as the cases proceed to court-martial, tentatively scheduled for mid-January, Silkman said.

None of the SEALs is confined, she added.

The alleged incident happened in Iraq on or about Sept. 1, Silkman said. “The one thing I can’t talk about is this alleged victim,” she said.

No other details about the alleged incident were immediately available.

The SEALs have been assigned military attorneys to defend them in the cases, which will be tried separately as special courts-martial.

One defense attorney said they had refused to accept nonjudicial punishment, administrative actions that some in the military may consider as a admission of guilt.

Neal Puckett, a defense attorney who is representing McCabe, said the SEALs are being essentially charged for allegedly giving the detainee “a punch in the gut.”

They are expected to plead not guilty when they appear at their arraignment. “They are all together and they all maintain that they are innocent of these charges,” said Puckett, a retired Marine Corps lieutenant colonel and judge advocate.

The SEALs were on the tail-end of their deployment to Iraq when the alleged incident happened, he said.

Puckett offered no details about the alleged incident, but said that “in a combat environment, the handling of a detainee … these things happen all the time and can easily be justified as maintaining [control of] a detainee.”

McCabe’s special court-martial is slated to begin Jan. 19, he said.

Huertas, 28, is originally from Blue Island, Ill., and enlisted in 1999. He has served in special warfare units since 2002. He has an Iraq Campaign Medal and was advanced in June 2006, Navy records show.

McCabe, 24 is originally from Perrysburg, Ohio, and enlisted in 2003. He served on the Amphibious Assault Ship Belleau Wood before training in special warfare. He was advanced in September 2007, Navy records show.

Keefe, 25, is originally from Yorktown, Va., and enlisted in 2006. He began SEAL training the same year, Navy records show. He was last advanced in June 2008.

Cmdr. Greg Geisen, a Naval Special Warfare Command spokesman in Coronado, Calif., referred all questions about the charges to SOCCent.

The charges were first reported by Fox News, which posted a story on its Web site Tuesday, saying the charges surround the SEALs’ handling of Ahmed Hashim Abed, who is believed to be connected to the 2004 slaying of four U.S. security contractors in Fallujah.

t walgamuth · #11 11-25-2009, 11:10 AM

I find it hard to imagine the Navy would put their men on trial for just punching someone in the gut.

That by the way appears to be the lawyer for defense's descriptoin of what happened.

#12 11-25-2009, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

I find it hard to imagine the Navy would put their men on trial for just punching someone in the gut.

That by the way appears to be the lawyer for defense's descriptoin of what happened.

I still haven't seen any real information except the list of charges. I have to assume these guys are accused of breaking some rules of engagement then lying about it. I guess we will see what comes out at the trial. It's possible that their command decided it was time to make an example of someone, and these guys just screwed up at the wrong time.