they always vote themselves right. what if the kid had suffered permanent heart damage as a result? would life long permanent injury to his heart have been a fitting punishment? or, as has been proven, tazing has caused deaths, which means the young man could have died.

did his "crime" give rise to a possible death sentence?

well, using that logic, what if he had been hit in the head with a batted ball or a pitch? what about death or brain damage from that? For that matter, the cops didnt know what this moron was doing, what if he had been a terrorist or just a nut with a gun who wanted to make a name for himself?

obviously when he walked out onto the field, being hit by a ball was a real possibility. though it appeared the game halted when the cops started to chase him. he was swinging a towel, not wielding a gun. but, now that you mention it, the idea that someone "may" be a terrorist is being introduced into our lives every day.

for instance, awhile back I went to a restaurant with some friends I hadn't seen in a while. I wanted to take some pictures so I took my camera which lives in a water proof case. when we walked into the restaurant, I received looks of concern by some of the diners. I then realized they were concerned over my camera case so I opened the case on the table and sat the camera to one side so they could see what was inside.

pre 9/11 no one would have given me so much as a second glance. but post 9/11 EVERYONE is suspected of being guilty of "something".

EVERYONE is being watched and evaluated every second of every day by these cell phone wielding neighborhood watch type people. and they might not like what they see and call it in to crime stoppers. of course, the crime stoppers crowd are white robed angels who are merely doing their civic duty.

Article 58 of the Russian Criminal Code:

"Where a Crime does not exist, one can be created."

[QUOTE=HuskyMan;2461675]and prior to Tazers, some of the police departments used pepper spray. and that resulted in some deaths as well. someone needs to develop a method so that they the ability to subdue an individual safely. I understand they have developed bean bag guns that will knock someone down but not permanently injure them.
QUOTE]

I’m thinking that’s pretty much what the thought is behind the pepper-spray and the tazer.

You'll need to define "safely" first though. And that wont be as easy as you may think.

It’s referred to as “non lethal force” for a reason. And statistically, when compared to other alternatives, it is just that.

You need to keep in mind the word “force” here.
You’re trying to physically stop someone who does not want to be stopped.
In its simplest form, that is going to take some sort of opposing force. In this case, you can’t just let the kid run around the field until he gets bored with it and leaves. So, some sort of opposing force must be injected into the equation. In this case, the tazer did exactly what it was designed to do.

Sure. At some point over time. When used against some particular individual. In some particular physical condition (unknown to the officer). You are going to discover a gray zone where “non leathal” could be in jeopardy. That holds true for pepper-spray, tazers, beanbags, rubber bullets, etc.

But, here’s the other thing you need to consider. That list can also include a physical grab, any take down method (including accidental), any form of restraint used, etc.

So what are you going to do? Just let the kid run?

__________________
1980 300D - Veggie Burner !

to sum this up:

"Americans used to roar like lions for liberty; now we bleat like sheep for security."

—Norman Vincent Peale


They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

- Benjamin Franklin
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.

- Samuel Adams

these quotes remind me of a guy who was standing in line behind me at the post office recently. out of the blue, he blurts out:

"I would gladly GIVE UP my civil liberties for more security".

his wife then said: SHUT UP FRANK


it seems many people are willing to lay down and put on the leg irons in exchange for security. unfortunately, it appears that they are in the majority and majority rules.

The kid's an idiot...if he didn't want to be electrocuted or subdued in any way shape or form he probably should have thought of that before jumping on the field and running from the cop.

__________________
TC
Current stable:
- 2004 Mazda RALLYWANKEL
- 2007 Saturn sky redline
- 2004 Explorer...under surgery.

Past: 135i, GTI, 300E, 300SD, 300SD, Stealth

[QUOTE=WVOtoGO;2461740]last base ball game I viewed, there were some FAST infielders with some muscle. in the video, it looks as though none of the ball players are making much of a move on the kid. two strong adult base ball players against one towel wielding 17 year old isn't much of a contest. and yes, he needed to be stopped, for sure.

I'm just saying using a device that may stop his heart may not be the best thing to do. but, heck, they use tazers everyday in traffic stops all across this land. the more power, the better.

[QUOTE=HuskyMan;2461754]it beats a 7.62 to the lower back....

Alright I saw the video. I don't think a taser was necessary. Then again, a ninja can turn anything into a deadly weapon.

__________________
You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows - Robert A. Zimmerman

absolutely he's an idiot. 95% of most of the teenagers I run across fit that description. the teenage years are amongst life's most trying. just ask any parent. they are trying to establish their own identity and yet they are not adults. a tough time for everyone.

there are millions of case files of teenagers acting in a socially irresponsible manner. those of us who made it through high school can verify that.

he's probably a good kid who for whatever reason became excited at the ball game and momentarily lost control. give him a break.

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt but even good kids make bad decisions and have to pay the consequences. I mean, did he really think that he would just run all over the field then hop back in the stands to watch the rest of the game? Hopefully for him it is a learning experience, but now he's "the guy who got tased at the Phillies game" in school

__________________
TC
Current stable:
- 2004 Mazda RALLYWANKEL
- 2007 Saturn sky redline
- 2004 Explorer...under surgery.

Past: 135i, GTI, 300E, 300SD, 300SD, Stealth

here's the problem. you are approaching this as if the kid was playing with a full deck of cards i.e., emotionally and mentally stable. of all the age groups, teenagers are amongst the most UNstable. they are prone to every type of mental and emotional disorder possible. I'm not a psychiatrist but it appears this young man momentarily lost his marbles, something which is just not that unusual for teenage youth. he didn't kill anyone, he didn't wreck his car into anyone, he just went crazy for a few minutes. two of those strong infielders could have easily tackled him and that would have been that. end of story. but, with the tazing, it could have ended a lot differently.

and as far as his reputation in school goes, who knows, some hot girl might think he's happening and start hanging out with him.

We've seem to have lost our sense of humor. There needs to be an outlet for kids to do stupid things. It's part of growing up. Better exercise your inner stupid by running on the field than drinking and driving.

__________________
You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows - Robert A. Zimmerman

Power corrupts. Many cops are wonderful people but not a small number were either jerks before they started that work or became that way after their egos enlarged from the power.

OTOH, it's a tough job and w/o cops, cities tend towards Mogadishu. But too much of cop mentality and you get E. Germany at it's worst.

Taser use is often excessive IMO.

__________________
Te futueo et caballum tuum

1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

absolutely. the stories of teenagers drinking and driving are legend. and I've noticed there doesn't appear to be many places where teenagers can hang out and have fun. back in my day, it was the local roller skating rink or bowling alley, but today's youth don't seem to think that is happening. perhaps a youth center of some type would be a good start for some of these kids. after all, they are going to grow up and they will be running this country when the rest of us are old and gray headed.