Ahh, who needs union representation! - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

aklim · #31 07-09-2010, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Local2ED

So your foolish enough to think GM would have collapsed without Obama-bucks? Look at history, not the first storm the industry has weathered.

You're kidding, right? Without the Bush-Obama bailouts where do you think GM would be? Besides being liquidated? Even the heads of the companies know that.

Local2ED · #32 07-09-2010, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgburg

If you want to defend Unions from a political perspective, fine. They collect the cash for their candidates. They're great for that.

As for working guy?

Back in '76, they did a bang-smash-up job for their state counterparts in WI. during the State-Employee Strike. Our group (I wasn't a member, so I had to stay on the job.) allowed the "scabs" in and my friend and I had to TRAIN, and then SUPERVISE them to get the work done and keep up with the cleaning schedule we needed finished before the EAA Convention got to Oshkosh that year.

I don't remember the exact time the strike got settled, but when it was, my friend and I HEARD about everyone's raise and how everything was going to be sweeter than it was before.

The whole strike was about more money. Not safety. No work hours, although, they managed to get an additional 15 minutes on their afternoon break, not us, but them...

Money. Period.

My friend and I did manage to keep the work schedule at pace (actually, one day ahead...and we got CRAP from the guys for doing it...NOT the scabs, but the returning strikers...and you all know the reason for that...ALL TOGETHER NOW...."You're making US look bad!!").

My friend and I? We didn't get any raise from all of that...we still got the $2.35/hour we were hired in at.

The scabs? We found out AFTER they were let go that they were getting a flat $4.00/hour! They did a great job of keeping their mouths shut.

The Union guys? They got anywhere from a $0.50/hour up to an additional $1.10/hour...depending on time and seniority in the position...and we didn't, ever, hear the end of it. If I recall correctly, the pleab in that group was getting around $6.00 or $7.00/hour and the top dog was pulling in somewhere just above $11.00 when they went out on strike. When they came back...it was all "...vacations here...and caviar over there..." from them.

And did the work quality improve?

Nope.

AAMOF, it got sloppier once they got back "up to speed" - and I use that term very loosely. They made sure we dragged the day out and the job out.

A few years later, however...I did work with a different Union group...IATSE.

There, they treated the job like the craft it was. With confidence and safety in mind. When you're playing with rigging, rafters, curtains, props and gunpowder...you'd better have your head about you or you'd get it rung! Or worse. But, the amount of people we had at each show wasn't "padded" with dead-weight and hanger-ons. We always staffed each call with workers that had 10 fingers and 10 toes and had their extra digits covered and stowed 'til the final call and release. But, I saw their ugly cousins in the bigger towns and you had to stand back and let it slide 'cause it was their turf.

And it seems to go that way whereever you may go or be.

There are the worthless and worthy.

Just pray you run into the worthy more than the former. And when you run into the former, spend as little time around them as you can.

They will sour you on their positions in a heartbeat and I always wonder, at that point, "Do they really care about anyone other than themselves, personally?"

Sadly...I think not. And it surprises me more that they still have a nose on their face, let alone that they show their face at all.

Nice story, that some version of it has been going on for as long as non-union crybaby wanna-be's have been around. Of course it's about money(duh) I want to make more but you wany me to make less so I'm the bad guy ? That only make's sense to the person who want's to pay me less

Local2ED · #33 07-09-2010, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

You're kidding, right? Without the Bush-Obama bailouts where do you think GM would be? Besides being liquidated? Even the heads of the companies know that.

Do you really think any of the American auto maker's would have closed their doors completely? Can you even name the last one that did and the reason?

Local2ED · #34 07-09-2010, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmash

I worke with a flight attendant union for 7 years.

First of all, the union took a job that should have been a short term stepping stone and turned it into a life long career. We had a FA who was in her 70's. By all accounts she should not have been on a plane. She was pushed through recurrent training each year. She would work part of a flight and then just sit down for the rest of the flight.

The FA's who did their job were fine but we dealt with too many (a small over all percentage) who abused the system and were protected by the union. We had FA's calling in sick all the time who we knew were not sick. We knew this because they were standing by for flights to get from where they lived to where they worked. We had print outs proving it. They were never held accountable.

I'm not able to get into al the details due to the complexity of the system but suffice to say, the junior FA's who wanted to work got hosed by the senior FA's who manipulated the system to their advantage.

Then there is the vindictiveness. When the FA's struck back in the 90's there were some who crossed the lines because they either needed the money of just plain disagreed with the union. There are FA's to this day who walk around with a list of FA's who crossed thel ine and will do everything in their power short of murder to make that FA's life a living hell. Last I checked, I could have sworn we lived in a country that supposedly promoted free will. OH well.

We had several FA's who came over to work at Crew Scheduling. With out exception, every single one saw the abuse by the union and said they would never want to be in another one.

A job I am perusing is union. I am pretty sure I willl make every effort to only give what ever support is required by law or regulation and not a ounce more.

I have spoke with many union members and my personal experience supports it that unions are not looking out for the interest of the employees anymore than the employer is. The unions main interest is to keep union dues (their salary) flowing in. The FA's union screwed over their FA's on a regular basis.

We do not live in 1700 or 1800. Horses have out lived their usefulness as primary transportation. So have unions only unions have not stepped aside like horses did.

Why are you "perusing" a union job if your not interested in all the benefit's that go with it? I would think walmart high turnover rate would land you a job their. A little hypocritical, don't you think

aklim · #35 07-09-2010, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Local2ED

Do you really think any of the American auto maker's would have closed their doors completely? Can you even name the last one that did and the reason?

Get real. Govt was the lender of LAST RESORT. Why do you think the last CEO of GM was fired? Because he wanted to be? Why would a CEO accept terms like that unless he had no choice. Even they admitted it. Without some sort of bailout, yes they would have to close down. Like I said, when you have been losing market share day in, day out for decades, it isn't just simply that you had a bad year or two. You are in trouble. Just because one hasn't closed in a long time is NOT a guarantee of survival.

Pavka007 · #36 07-09-2010, 02:25 PM

Calling "AKLIM"

This guy seems to be ready for a fight with anyone who do not agree with him. Come on, we know your power, go get him

(I know you have a sense of humor)

aklim · #37 07-09-2010, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Local2ED

Why are you "perusing" a union job if your not interested in all the benefit's that go with it? I would think walmart high turnover rate would land you a job their. A little hypocritical, don't you think

My wife wanted to work in a hospital and being a union shop, she had 2 choices. Be a member of pay some huge percentage of the dues since she had to use the same contract that they negotiated. It was harder to fire an RN even if she refused to do something that was part of her job. Thankfully, she has moved on to a non-union job. They took out her dues every month and every year, we had to go ask for a part of that money back because she wasn't and didn't want to be a part of the union but had to pay for some of the dues because they negotiated a contract that she had to go under.

jcyuhn · #38 07-09-2010, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Local2ED

Do you really think any of the American auto maker's would have closed their doors completely? Can you even name the last one that did and the reason?

Yes, GM and Chrysler absolutely would have closed and gone into liquidation. During the financial crisis "debtor-in-possession" (DIP) financing was completely unavailable. DIP is used to keep companies solvent through bankruptcy proceedings. Without it, they close and go into liquidation. The federal govenment stepped in and effectively supplied DIP to recapitalize GM and Chrysler. Without it, they would be gone today.

As far as automakers closing; how about these: Saturn, Pontiac, Hummer, Plymouth, Mercury, Eagle/AMC. Yes, they are brands of larger entities, but the closure of each does result in a reduction in manufacturing capacity, loss of jobs, reduction in orders to suppliers, closure of dealerships, etc.

#39 07-09-2010, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Local2ED

Do you really think any of the American auto maker's would have closed their doors completely? Can you even name the last one that did and the reason?

Here is a list of several 100 defunct manufactures, now they are down to 3 (1 really); maybe you can do the math:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_defunct_United_States_automobile_manufacturers

I actually don't think the will all close their doors completely, but I do think they will decrease their US operations as much as possible, and I assume that they will eventually be bought out by someone (maybe Toyota, when the price gets low enough). They can only sell so many trucks and fleet cars.

75Sv1 · #40 07-09-2010, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Local2ED

Do you really think any of the American auto maker's would have closed their doors completely? Can you even name the last one that did and the reason?

Major AMC. Then again Chrysler bought them out. There probably have been a few minor ones. Vector comes to mind. I think late 80's to mid 90's. I'm not sure about Tesla, if they are surviving or not. I don't know the status of Delorean. Bricklin was technically a Canadian firm, but also headquatered in Pheniox AZ (??).
Bricklin had orders, but needed some cash flow. It became a political rally to shut them down. From what I understand the government required X amount of employees. It was probably 3 time to many. So people basically tripping over each other.
I think before AMC, the last major one would have been Packard/Studebaker. I think both just didn't have enough resources to develope new products. So, one or two unfavorable models and they were sunk. I think those two combined near the end. It wasn't a good mix. I would guess sort of like Chrsyler and MB.
Then again, I guess you could say Saturn was the last car maker/division. Poor manegment decissions. Also, got lost in the SUV craze.
Tom

#41 07-09-2010, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

My wife wanted to work in a hospital and being a union shop, she had 2 choices. Be a member of pay some huge percentage of the dues since she had to use the same contract that they negotiated. It was harder to fire an RN even if she refused to do something that was part of her job. Thankfully, she has moved on to a non-union job. They took out her dues every month and every year, we had to go ask for a part of that money back because she wasn't and didn't want to be a part of the union but had to pay for some of the dues because they negotiated a contract that she had to go under.

Hopefully these state laws will change as unions become less and less influential. The rust belt will be the last to change. It's nothing more than a protection racket, Tony Soprano would be proud.

Pavka007 · #42 07-09-2010, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

Here is a list of several 100 defunct manufactures, now they are down to 3 (1 really); maybe you can do the math:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_defunct_United_States_automobile_manufacturers

WOW, I can't wait to see HIS argument about the facts

You have the floor....... SIR

Local2ED · #43 07-09-2010, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

My wife wanted to work in a hospital and being a union shop, she had 2 choices. Be a member of pay some huge percentage of the dues since she had to use the same contract that they negotiated. It was harder to fire an RN even if she refused to do something that was part of her job. Thankfully, she has moved on to a non-union job. They took out her dues every month and every year, we had to go ask for a part of that money back because she wasn't and didn't want to be a part of the union but had to pay for some of the dues because they negotiated a contract that she had to go under.

So she reaped the benefits of a union negotiated contract but did not want to join the union? Don't they call that hypocritical, why not work somewhere not under a union contract?

#44 07-09-2010, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pavka007

WOW, I can't wait to see HIS argument about the facts

You have the floor....... SIR

It's not an argument, it's an ideology. These guys don't deal with facts, they just think that it will turn into 1950 if they wish hard enough. Debating them is a complete waste of time, but I happen to be very bored at the moment. It's all good fun, as long as you don't have them actually "working" for you.

Pavka007 · #45 07-09-2010, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

It's not an argument, it's an ideology. These guys don't deal with facts, they just think that it will turn into 1950 if they wish hard enough. Debating them is a complete waste of time, but I happen to be very bored at the moment. It's all good fun, as long as you don't have them actually "working" for you.

Well this time I have to disagree with you....in a way

He IS WORKING for us...what do you call all this entertainment