Shocker! Over 90% of Americans Choose Sweden's Socialism - Page 5 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

mgburg · #61 10-02-2010, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmash

There is also the possibility that you could get injured or sick and be unable to care for your self. Then what? ... In understand the idea of hard work and the rewards that go with it. I also understand that there are circumstances that are beyond ones control. If you get sick or injured you could loose everything you have. That hardly seems right. ... There needs to be a bottom that we do not let people fall below.

Deep dark secret to be revealed: My G-Father on my dad's side of the family (way before I was born) suffered a stroke, severe enough that he was bed-ridden. My father, at the time, was serving in Germany, Post-Korea, and just finishing up NCO School over there.

Somehow, my G-Father managed to get the family 22-rifle over to the bedside and positioned it for a one-shot salute.

He couldn't let the family (wife, 3 daughters) and farm waste to nothing 'cause he was considered "able-bodied" yet (he apparently couldn't do "5hit" and the government said he could) and there needed to be a full-bodied male at the house to keep the farm running.

He did what he had to do. He pulled the trigger, which started the ball rolling to get my dad state-side on a "hardship discharge" and back to the family homestead to work the fields.

Our family has ALWAYS taken care of our own...either through nursing home or hospice...otherwise we expire due to MS, car wrecks or whatever.

I don't intend to be someone else's burden.

I've tasted the government milk from the hind-tit of the sow once (my dad's SS-death benefits) and the flavor sux to say the least.

I don't have SS planned in my 401(k) figures at all. For all I know or care, it may not be there. It's already been spent 2x's over and no one is putting anything back into the pot. Why bother? The threat of the "3rd Rail of Political Suicide" has to be put out there to keep the masses from grabbing anyone that claims they are, let alone were, a Congressman, from getting lynched if anyone really found out how bad the SS-problem is. And no one wants to be the messenger on that one. He WILL get killed...if not by the constituents, then the members of Congress themselves will finish him/her off.

My plan is simple...if I'm brain-dead, my DNR orders say to pull the plug...any funds expended to keep me alive will be coming from any @55**le that thinks he knows better than my attorney and me to keep me plugged in and pumping. Dead is dead. And if the insurance I have won't cover extended care, pull the plug or drop the meds...just save enough to give me a fist full of Percoset and a botttle of Amaretto and it's "Good Night" for me...I'm outa' here.

The "roast, toast & toss" has already been paid for and planned. The only thing I'll need is someone to make the claim for the tossing. Once I'm dead and done, it up to the son and grandsons to carry on. At no cost to them or theirs. Or...any of you.

I've never liked vegetables and I don't ever intend to be one.

Period.

RichC · #62 10-04-2010, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutzTD

according to these guys the top 1% makes 410K and that 1% pays 40% of the taxes that are paid. this is not what they should pay, it is what they do pay.

http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

you are villifying a lot of normal people and give the example of one guy who is the 3rd richest in the world

That site is BS !

Try using percentage of income paid as taxes.
Not dollar amounts.

The site is purposely misleading.

lutzTD · #63 10-04-2010, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichC

That site is BS !

Try using percentage of income paid as taxes.
Not dollar amounts.

The site is purposely misleading.

so we should just ignore the fact that out of 141 million taxpayers 1,400 are paying 40% of all taxes and 14 million are paying 70% of all taxes?

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

these are published numbers from the IRS, why is it BS? its a data point the same as % of income. and its a real good reason why socialism sounds good to so many people, but screw the 14m guys paying the taxes and see where that leaves us.

davidmash · #64 10-04-2010, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutzTD

so we should just ignore the fact that out of 141 million taxpayers 1,400 are paying 40% of all taxes and 14 million are paying 70% of all taxes?

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

these are published numbers from the IRS, why is it BS? its a data point the same as % of income. and its a real good reason why socialism sounds good to so many people, but screw the 14m guys paying the taxes and see where that leaves us.

Because as Rich and I said you are looking at raw dollar amounts not percentages. Ten percent of $100 million is more than 10% of $100 thousand but it is still 10% so both parties are being taxed the same.

The perception is that the rich are not paying the same in taxes as those less fortunate. With all the loop holes and complexity there is no way to really find out for certain. I suspect that since those with the money make the rules and we are still not using a flat tax system that such a system does not benefit the rich as well as the current system.

chasinthesun · #65 01-08-2011, 11:37 AM

In Sweden ,the people are of the Govt .In the US,the profits are of the Govt.

t walgamuth · #66 01-08-2011, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTUpower

Only a knee jerk liberal like you could turn giving a poor man a Mercedes, for free, into a nasty political trick. Next it'll be that the people who work hard, word smart, and take responsibility for their behavior and understand the futurity of individual actions need to coddle those living in the slacker, welfare, section 8 entitlement world because they might be hurt that anyone wants them to lift a finger. Oh wait- you're already asking that.

That is a joke, I am pretty certain.

t walgamuth · #67 01-08-2011, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutzTD

no doubt they have great health care, but who is paying?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Income_Taxes_By_Country.svg

I had a chance to move there for a decent paying job, then they told me they want 50% tax and I declined. With deductions I pay around 16% now. couldnt see a 3 fold increase in taxes being to my benefit.

I would be interesting to make a comparison of all taxes here and all taxes over there. If you stop and take a look we pay federal income tax, also state and perhaps county. Then we pay sales tax, property tax and on all kinds of other things additional taxes. I bet we pay 50% tax too when it is all added up, or at least if it were adjusted to take out the cost of health care and other services provided in other countries and not here.

aklim · #68 01-08-2011, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

I would be interesting to make a comparison of all taxes here and all taxes over there. If you stop and take a look we pay federal income tax, also state and perhaps county. Then we pay sales tax, property tax and on all kinds of other things additional taxes. I bet we pay 50% tax too when it is all added up, or at least if it were adjusted to take out the cost of health care and other services provided in other countries and not here.

IF you want to make that comparison, you have to KNOW what you are paying in taxes. Problem is there are so many little taxes here that you will never know. It's not like you can say "I made 1000, bought 500 of items and the tax is 10% therefore I paid $550 and have $450 left". You also now have to know exactly what they paid in taxes and got in services which will be another nightmare. You also have to know what you got in services to compare. How would you do that? You would have to have 2 columns for each country. What you paid and what you got.

Somehow I think that is what the politicians want. This way, you DON'T know what you are paying and a few cents here and a few cents there don't bother you enough to investigate. I'll bet 9 out of 10 people don't know exactly what they paid for taxes and why. Maybe even 99 out of 100 or 999 out of 1000.

The more I think about it, the fairest (probably not going to be perfectly fair since nothing is perfect) would be consumption tax. The more you spend, the more you pay. No deductions, no shelters, no nothing. After all, every item you buy taxes the infrastructure so you should pay for that. It would force the govt to spend within their means or raise taxes on everyone and then, they would have to explain it. That would make it transparent. Right now, only Deep Blue is capable of telling what each person paid on taxes.

Chas H · #69 01-08-2011, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

I would be interesting to make a comparison of all taxes here and all taxes over there. If you stop and take a look we pay federal income tax, also state and perhaps county. Then we pay sales tax, property tax and on all kinds of other things additional taxes. I bet we pay 50% tax too when it is all added up, or at least if it were adjusted to take out the cost of health care and other services provided in other countries and not here.

If you count the cost of helthcare insurance as a tax, it's quite conceivable we pay more in taxes. Consider a family of 4 might pay 15,000/yr in healtcare insurance, that's 20% of 75K annual income.

aklim · #70 01-08-2011, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chas H

If you count the cost of helthcare insurance as a tax, it's quite conceivable we pay more in taxes. Consider a family of 4 might pay 15,000/yr in healtcare insurance, that's 20% of 75K annual income.

It's a good way to skew an equation, I'll give you that. It's no more of a tax than my auto or homeowner's insurance is. In fact, my homeowners insurance is more akin to a tax since my lender forces me to have it to cover the loss. You HAVE NOT been forced to buy healthcare insurance YET.

lutzTD · #71 01-08-2011, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

IF you want to make that comparison, you have to KNOW what you are paying in taxes. Problem is there are so many little taxes here that you will never know. It's not like you can say "I made 1000, bought 500 of items and the tax is 10% therefore I paid $550 and have $450 left". You also now have to know exactly what they paid in taxes and got in services which will be another nightmare. You also have to know what you got in services to compare. How would you do that? You would have to have 2 columns for each country. What you paid and what you got.

Somehow I think that is what the politicians want. This way, you DON'T know what you are paying and a few cents here and a few cents there don't bother you enough to investigate. I'll bet 9 out of 10 people don't know exactly what they paid for taxes and why. Maybe even 99 out of 100 or 999 out of 1000.

The more I think about it, the fairest (probably not going to be perfectly fair since nothing is perfect) would be consumption tax. The more you spend, the more you pay. No deductions, no shelters, no nothing. After all, every item you buy taxes the infrastructure so you should pay for that. It would force the govt to spend within their means or raise taxes on everyone and then, they would have to explain it. That would make it transparent. Right now, only Deep Blue is capable of telling what each person paid on taxes.

flat tax has been out there a long time, problem is, it is too much of a burden for 50% of the population who do not pay income tax now.

aklim · #72 01-08-2011, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutzTD

flat tax has been out there a long time, problem is, it is too much of a burden for 50% of the population who do not pay income tax now.

I thought flat tax is basically a percentage of what you make? IOW, if you make 100K and the rate is 10% you pay $10K. IF it is based off what you spend, you can make 100K but if you spend 10K that is what your tax is based off.

I think the issue is not the burden on the population. The main issue is transparency. In a flat tax, you KNOW too well what you are paying. Lets talk about YOU. Tell me, down to the dollar how much you pay in taxes when you consider all taxes which might be income tax, sales tax, stadium tax, county tax, etc, etc. Most, including myself don't know that exact number.

el presidente · #73 01-08-2011, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichC

Guess which country was least affected by the recession ? ?

Iceland?
Portugal?
Spain?
Ireland?
Greece?

el presidente · #74 01-08-2011, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

I thought flat tax is basically a percentage of what you make? IOW, if you make 100K and the rate is 10% you pay $10K. IF it is based off what you spend, you can make 100K but if you spend 10K that is what your tax is based off.

I think the issue is not the burden on the population. The main issue is transparency. In a flat tax, you KNOW too well what you are paying. Lets talk about YOU. Tell me, down to the dollar how much you pay in taxes when you consider all taxes which might be income tax, sales tax, stadium tax, county tax, etc, etc. Most, including myself don't know that exact number.

About 55 percent.

strelnik · #75 01-08-2011, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuskyMan

so.......since to many a mercedes represents a certain 'class' of people, i.e. if you have a mercedes you have ARRIVED, then everyone on this forum should donate their mercedes to someone of lesser economic means. !

Ok, I'll give you arrivistes my bank account number and the location where you can drop off your W126, W189 and M-100 cars!