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  #31  
Old 02-09-2011, 11:23 AM
Craig
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Originally Posted by Txjake View Post
I'm not religious, not a scientist; I am an engineer. All I wonder about is if there is evolution that occurs, would someone please point out the species in which this is happening right now? How many are jumping over the wall into something new? Or, did this evolution only occur in one species? If so, why? Did God cause it to evolve? Why can't dogs talk now, after being domesticated for such a long time? Why don't more animals have opposing thumbs when it helps with survival?
Seriously?

There are many examples of simple organisms that evolve constantly. The easiest is the "flu" which evolves on a yearly basis. The fossil record includes evidence of evolution for most (probably all) current species; you can look up the evolution of horse, pigs, species of fish, etc.

One common misconception of evolution is that it always involves species becoming more "advanced." In the case of humanoids, there was a survival advantage to developing bigger brains, opposable thumbs, speech, etc. Those traits all involve biological trade-offs that my not be an advantage to other species.

Regarding "god," Pierre-Simon Laplace said it best when he told Napoleon, Je n'avais pas besoin de cette hypothèse-là. ("I had no need of that hypothesis.").

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  #32  
Old 02-09-2011, 11:27 AM
Craig
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Originally Posted by Txjake View Post
how long did it take monkeys to jump the fence into the bipedal maximus region, aka homo sapiens? centuries,millenia? or did it just occur relatively quickly? and why? we see bacteria evolving in order to survive the onslaught of drugs, but monkeys still exist, even after something caused some of them to change to homo sapiens. Why didnt all monkeys evolve? Why was man formed by this evolution, and are we the only species aware of our evolvement? Do other living organisms have concious thought? If not, why?
You are misunderstanding, humans did not evolve from modern monkeys; both humans and modern apes evolved from common ancestors who no longer exist. There is an extensive fossil record that demonstrates the evolution of all these species. You really need to find a good book on evolution, you appear to be asking the wrong questions.
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  #33  
Old 02-09-2011, 11:27 AM
waterboarding w/medmech
 
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Originally Posted by Honus View Post
I don't mean to be flip about it, but I think you need a library, not a Mercedes website, if you want to see evidence of evolution. My understanding is that it takes years of study of fossils and other matters to understand the case for and against evolution. For those who don't have the time or inclination to do that, we have to rely on the experts, who overwhelmingly believe in evolution.
I never said that I did not believe in it. I just want emperical data that shows major evolution in life forms larger than one celled organisms
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  #34  
Old 02-09-2011, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Txjake View Post
I never said that I did not believe in it. I just want emperical data that shows major evolution in life forms larger than one celled organisms
Go and buy some books and read up on it, its a massive subject and this is a Mercedes forum!
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  #35  
Old 02-09-2011, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Txjake View Post
I never said that I did not believe in it.
I saw that.
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I just want emperical data that shows major evolution in life forms larger than one celled organisms
Head to the library, my man, I'm sure the evidence you seek is there.
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  #36  
Old 02-09-2011, 11:32 AM
waterboarding w/medmech
 
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Originally Posted by Craig View Post
You are misunderstanding, humans did not evolve from modern monkeys; both humans and modern apes evolved from common ancestors who no longer exist. There is an extensive fossil record that demonstrates the evolution of all these species. You really need to find a good book on evolution, you appear to be asking the wrong questions.
then why did modern apes evolve as such? why dont they speak and have a higher social order like their cousins? I am aware of the fossil records, I am also aware that there are gaps in said record.

not mocking anybody, just want to know why. maybe I need an evolution forum, but I dont want to blindly accept the homo sapiens theory as "religion" without some answers. Maybe the answers are not there yet.

I still want to know why dogs cant talk to their humans in a mutually understandable dialect. we have been together for millennia....
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  #37  
Old 02-09-2011, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Txjake View Post
then why did modern apes evolve as such? why dont they speak and have a higher social order like their cousins? I am aware of the fossil records, I am also aware that there are gaps in said record.

not mocking anybody, just want to know why. maybe I need an evolution forum, but I dont want to blindly accept the homo sapiens theory as "religion" without some answers. Maybe the answers are not there yet.

I still want to know why dogs cant talk to their humans in a mutually understandable dialect. we have been together for millennia....
I'd recommend Fran DeWaal's Our Inner Ape, before making the claim that humans have a higher social order than other primates.
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  #38  
Old 02-09-2011, 11:38 AM
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Evolution is sloooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwww

http://lesswrong.com/lw/kt/evolutions_are_stupid_but_work_anyway/
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  #39  
Old 02-09-2011, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Txjake View Post
then why did modern apes evolve as such? why dont they speak and have a higher social order like their cousins? I am aware of the fossil records, I am also aware that there are gaps in said record.

not mocking anybody, just want to know why. maybe I need an evolution forum, but I dont want to blindly accept the homo sapiens theory as "religion" without some answers. Maybe the answers are not there yet.

I still want to know why dogs cant talk to their humans in a mutually understandable dialect. we have been together for millennia....
The apes that speak do exist, they are us. But I understand your confusion. Apes have evolved. No ape exists like it did before. Think of a genome as a light switch. Imagine ancient man and ape side by side, then someone flips that switch to enhance communication (which itself too a long time). But for the ape, no such luck. Maybe it was a response to a predator. But the point is that over time more and more switches get flipped on and off and eventually there is more and more of a difference.

As for dog speaking, maybe one day it will happen. You have to keep in mind that we do not sent out dogs to school If a child was born do you think it would speak without education/training from parents/school? That child would not. There are examples of dogs understanding communication very well. They just dont have the vocal cords for speech no more than fish do. I think a dog understanding sign language is a pretty good sign though of evolution/skill/reasoning/etc.
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  #40  
Old 02-09-2011, 11:41 AM
Craig
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Originally Posted by Txjake View Post
then why did modern apes evolve as such? why dont they speak and have a higher social order like their cousins? I am aware of the fossil records, I am also aware that there are gaps in said record.
The fact that you are asking "why" indicates that you don't understand the process. In short, we are talking about random mutations within individuals of a species; the vast majority of those mutations are meaningless. Very rarely there are mutations that provide an advantage for those individual to survive and reproduce more efficiently within there environment (i.e., giraffes with longer necks). If the "new" version of this animal is then isolated from the main group (and does not interbreed), it will eventually evolve enough differences to be considered a separate species. In other words, the ability of humans to be self-aware is almost certainly a byproduct of other changes that had an evolutionary advantage at the time, in a specific environment (it was an accident).
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  #41  
Old 02-09-2011, 11:42 AM
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Everyone knows that dogs talk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ERSFuSm4rY
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  #42  
Old 02-09-2011, 01:16 PM
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Looks like at least one NM Republican is on the side of the Facebookers:

http://www.santafenewmexican.com/Local%20News/Bill-promotes-teaching-of--intelligent-design-
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  #43  
Old 02-09-2011, 01:30 PM
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Wow, some of you folks got a lot of faith, really a lot more then I suspected. I think a lot of it is misdirected, but still it is a faith, your faith. For me, I am sticking with intelligent design that is creation - just seems to be a more sensible way. Neither theory is easy to prove in or out of court.
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  #44  
Old 02-09-2011, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by junqueyardjim View Post
Wow, some of you folks got a lot of faith, really a lot more then I suspected. I think a lot of it is misdirected, but still it is a faith, your faith. For me, I am sticking with intelligent design that is creation - just seems to be a more sensible way. Neither theory is easy to prove in or out of court.
At least one has the benefit of empirical verification instead of metaphysical speculation.
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  #45  
Old 02-09-2011, 01:38 PM
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Looks like NM schools aren't doing such a good job on educating journalists in English. From the story:

"Anderson said Tuesday if someone used his bill to teach religious tenants in school, "I'd go after them. I'd bring them down."

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