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  #16  
Old 03-15-2011, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
great discussion.

I have read quite a bit about ww2 and I believe you both make good points. One thing about Mac is that he did by pass some of japan's strongholds. His stated philosopy was to "hit em where they ain't" a baseball analogy.

We bypassed and isolated numerous japanese strongholds thereby saving a lot of lives.

In William Manchester's book about Mac "MacArthur, American Caesar" Manchester stated that Nimitz's work in the north pacific was much much more bloody than the work that Mac did in the southern part of the pacific. In fact he stated that Mac had the lowest casualty rates of any General in any theater of our army (I believe I have quoted correctly or paraphrased).

Nimitz and Mac represented two different chains of command, Navy and Army.
Manchester describes MacArthur's personal knowledge of the battle field(s) and more importantly, knowing the existing power stucture very well. He was an old man during the war; is there a military commander today in the US with the same ability who is not hamstrung by political consideration?

Mac's retirement speech was sublime, and hey- he got fired for bucking Truman, like any general should.

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  #17  
Old 03-16-2011, 07:59 AM
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Typical God complex

MacArthur denied fellow Officers transport off Corrigador and out of the Phillipines so he could transport his personal cargo (luggage, furniture,art work and supposedly several million in Gold bullion from the Bank of Manila). He accepted tribute percentages in several US/Phillipine monopolies and US/Japanese consortiums that made him a millionaire. He basically owned the top floor of the best hotel in Manila and had a piece of the Bank of Manila.

Compare him to Nimitz and DDE and he appears to be the Robber Baron that he was. He represented the US Policy of the period as handed down from Teddy Roosevelt, Manifest Destiny. He may have changed Japan into a modern nation but he treated the Phillipinos like slaves.

My Uncle Edward served as his Adjudant in Australia and said he was the most pompous ass he had ever met. He kept 2 mistresses, (1 Phillipino and 1 Aussie), in Australia, while the troops he left in Corrigador and Luzon were dying on the Battan Death March and all along his wife and son were billited in luxury.

Post War he basically attempted a palace coup against Truman, typical whisper campaign but it was run by the GOP and the crew that put DDE into office. Mac was just a hired gun.

He owned a double suite in the Waldorf Towers (2 condo apartments 3 bedrooms each) that I have seen when a firm I was working for rented them as housing for some of our Senior Level European and Asian guests.
How can you ignore the wealth he amassed when he was supposed to be a serving officer? Especially compared to Truman who didn't even take the offered Pendergast payoffs in the 1930's that would have made his retirement easier.

Mac was the last of his type and I am glad.
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  #18  
Old 03-16-2011, 02:24 PM
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I seriously doubt he could have taken all you allege off when he left corrigador. he did take his wife and child off in a PT boat (or a submarine) so there would not have been room for furniture nor likely bullion.

I have never heard that he had ammassed a huge fortune but he was a general for most of his adult life and he remained one for perhaps as much a 50 years and had no living expenses for most of that time so without too much effort could have amassed a good sum for retirement.

I will agree he was a pompous ass.

I have never heard of two mistresses....nor even one.
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  #19  
Old 03-16-2011, 02:52 PM
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"In February 1942, as Japanese forces tightened their grip on the Philippines, MacArthur was ordered by President Roosevelt to relocate to Australia. MacArthur discussed the idea with his staff that he resign his commission and fight on as a private soldier in the Philippine resistance but Sutherland talked him out of it.[115] On the night of March 12, 1942, MacArthur and a select group (that included his wife Jean and son Arthur, as well as Sutherland, Akin, Casey, Marshall, Willoughby, Diller, and George) left Corregidor in four PT boats. MacArthur, his family and Sutherland traveled in PT 41, commanded by Lieutenant John D. Bulkeley. The others followed in PT 34, PT 35 and PT 32. MacArthur and his party reached Del Monte Airfield in Bukidnon province on the island of Mindanao two days later. General George Marshall sent three U.S. Navy B-17s to pick them up. Two of them arrived, and brought the entire group to Australia.[116][117]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_MacArthur
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  #20  
Old 03-16-2011, 03:02 PM
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Wasn't it McArthur who used force to remove protestors/squators from Washington DC?
What an *******.

we could have probably won the Korean war if he would have gotten his ass over to Korea once in a while instead of trying to control everything from japan.
Truman was way too patient with him. he should have been removed and replaced McArthur with Lieutenant-General Matthew Ridgway long before he finnaly did.

I am not really a big fan of McArthur. Never was never will be.

Danny
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  #21  
Old 03-16-2011, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by dannym View Post
Wasn't it McArthur who used force to remove protestors/squators from Washington DC?
What an *******.

we could have probably won the Korean war if he would have gotten his ass over to Korea once in a while instead of trying to control everything from japan.
Truman was way too patient with him. he should have been removed and replaced McArthur with Lieutenant-General Matthew Ridgway long before he finnaly did.

I am not really a big fan of McArthur. Never was never will be.

Danny

We would have won the Korean War if NATO wasn't forced by the politicians to stop advancing at the 38th parallel.
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  #22  
Old 03-16-2011, 04:39 PM
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It was PT boats. I saw it on TV.. John Wayne was one of the skippers of the PT Boats.
I saw it.
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  #23  
Old 03-16-2011, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Hatterasguy View Post
We would have won the Korean War if NATO wasn't forced by the politicians to stop advancing at the 38th parallel.
...those pesky separation of powers. Darned constitution!
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  #24  
Old 03-16-2011, 08:39 PM
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I wonder how many people can be put into a category of "good" or "bad". Everyone I know, or have studied is a combination of sometimes contrary qualities of both good and bad.
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  #25  
Old 03-16-2011, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannym View Post
Wasn't it McArthur who used force to remove protestors/squators from Washington DC?
What an *******.

we could have probably won the Korean war if he would have gotten his ass over to Korea once in a while instead of trying to control everything from japan.
Truman was way too patient with him. he should have been removed and replaced McArthur with Lieutenant-General Matthew Ridgway long before he finnaly did.

I am not really a big fan of McArthur. Never was never will be.

Danny
Ridgeway as a good man and fine officer. He was, like Patton, awfully free with the lives of his soldiers, though. Being a general is a terrible job.

NFW MacArthur could have earned enough to own what the above posts allege. I don't care if he saved every dime. Military pay, even for senior officers was terrible. The military didn't issue a family so they pretty much left the family for the officer to take care of -- never mind the ranks.
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  #26  
Old 03-16-2011, 09:23 PM
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So you think the alleged wealth is accurate?

I don't think I have ever heard such charges against Mac before.
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  #27  
Old 03-16-2011, 09:38 PM
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Nor have I.

My assumption is that Stoney is honestly and accurately portraying what his uncle knew and that his uncle was also honest and accurate. How could I assume otherwise? I'd need a reason for Stoney to lie or for Stoney's uncle to lie. I can't do that.

So we have a total lack of positive evidence (that he actually had ill-gotten great wealth). Lack of evidence is not evidence of lack. IOW, because I have never seen a black swan does not mean a black swan does not exist.

Could MacArthur's presumed wealth have other origins? Did he inherit? Did he legally and ethically invest his money in legit business? I dunno. But knowing any or all of those things might undermine Stoney's uncles allegation.

One last thing: Knowing MacArthur's reputation, could he rationalize any of what is alleged?
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  #28  
Old 03-16-2011, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Emmerich View Post

Korea was the first war run by Washington and showed politicians need to keep their fingers out of battle plans. Inchon was a great success and MacArthur should have been allowed to kick the Chinese as far as possible. The restrictions of not taking it to the enemy because of the yalu River boundary were bogus and gave the enemy an advantage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatterasguy View Post
We would have won the Korean War if NATO wasn't forced by the politicians to stop advancing at the 38th parallel.
Can't help but remind me of this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fj5k6toS7i8
1:00
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  #29  
Old 03-16-2011, 09:41 PM
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I don't know I'd have to see some evidence to support those charges.

My favorite generals are still Guderian and Rommal. Both were honorable men who got stuck serving a crummy leader.
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  #30  
Old 03-16-2011, 10:00 PM
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That's pretty common, Hatt. I guess it's easier to find a good general than a good political leader.

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