I was under the impression that the desert fox might have been a political follower more than an officer should be through his early career. He may have changed but much of what is written may be far from accurate still. The tendency of the media to exploit things is all too well known.

I have read, I believe that Rommell participated in a plot to kill HItler late in the game and died discredited (with Hitler at least).

Trueman was an artillary Captian in ww1. He commanded a group of men who were originally considered misfits who had run off every captain before Harry. It was full of hard drinking practical joking fighting Irish and other ethnic groupings.

He took over the group (IIRC was called the 129th?) and won their respect. Harry was not a large man and he was not physically imposing but had a pinkish complection and glasses and looked almost effeminate compared to the rough men in his Battalion.

When they got to France he proved to have a cool head in an emergency and be very good at handling a horse which they still pulled the big guns with. His cool thinking and acting kept his men safe and although running a big gun makes you an instant target for the enemy big guns they got adept at moving them quickly and his battalion made it through with very few casualties.

One story from that period has Captain Trueman moving his Artillary battalion through a particularly nasty muddy section of road when a general came along and began berating Harry's men for not looking smart in their marching and telling them to hurry up and get to so and such place. Trueman's men were exhausted from marching all day in the mud and as soon as the general moved on Trueman ordered his men off the road and camped for the night saying he would take a court marshall rather than let a pompous a$$ abuse his men that way.

Although Trueman admired General Marshall over about anybody he was not initmidated by the general rank and thought a lot of them were jerks.

He did not like Mac personally but respected his long career of service and perhaps allowed him a little too much rope before canning him. Mac's popularity was such that Trueman new he would face much criticism for firing Mac, and he did but after Mac toured the country spouting off people soon found out how he was and the criticism of Trueman died down.

It also opened the door for Eisenhower in '52.

(Another General who Trueman in the end had little use for). Though he originally held Ike in high esteem, and had hoped he might run on the D ticket, Ike did not return the affection and treated Trueman with contempt during the period between Ike's election and inaguration.

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Mac might have been able to rationalize a lot of things. Stoney's relative related heresay evidence against a person who was a very polarizing figure. Heck I remember back when GHW Bush was pres hearing he was involved in drug dealing. Although I did not particularly agree with much of his politics I never gave an ounce of credibility to the story even though the contractor I heard it from is a person who I respect for his personal integrity.

(The contractor's politics are a little sketchy). He is what I would call borderline or more militia.

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

My Dad was a Lcdr and landed with a battalion of sailors at Sasebo during the ceasefire but before the formal surrender. On landing, the commandant of the facility formally surrendered his sword to my Dad, which he accepted, then respectfully had his sailors lower the Japanese flag, hand salute with the Japanese sailors, and he took possession of the flag. Then he ordered our Colors hoisted, hand salute (again with the Japanese sailors saluting). he turned and ordered the Japanese to surrender all firearms and took possession of the commandant's office.

After the official surrender, Gen MacArthur issued an order that all officers must turn-in surrendered swords of honor. My Dad did. Later, MacArthur gave the swords to correspondents who tagged around with him. I still have the flag.

After the official surrender, Gen MacArthur issued an order that all officers must turn-in surrendered swords of honor. My Dad did. Later, MacArthur gave the swords to correspondents who tagged around with him. I still have the flag.

So was that kosher? Do soldiers or sailors ususlly get to keep such artifacts?

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

It's a grey area. The tradition, going back to pre-literate warriors, was 'to the victor, the spoils.' In chivalry the losing knights often had to yield their weapons, armor, and war horse, riding home in civvies on a palfrey. "Yield" has its meaning in chivalry.

This was true of commoners, too. But as time progressed, in chivalry it became increasingly unacceptible for the lord to pay for his military adventure by sacking the countryside. "Sacking" has a meaning, too. Eventually it evolved to a symbolic gesture -- weapons only were yielded. Look at what happened at Yorktown, for example. The common soldiers carred home the 'Brown Bess" as part of their compensation. That's why there are so many of them among gun collectors.

The Civil War returned to sacking to compensate the ranks. Lee surrendered his sword of honor to Grant.

WWII saw the first wide-spread legal attempt by the US military to try to prevent collection of souveniers. Sacking was severely punished and deeply frowned on in the ranks. But petty theft and war booty were winked at. It partially worked but mostly failed. Worked much better in Korea & Vietnam because of automatic weapons being illegal in the uSA as much as anything. Also the folks were so poor compared to US soldiers that tehy really didn't have much that a soldier might find interesting.

There was nothing in law about giving swords of honor to news reporters.

Quoting Wikipedia is like having Jeffrey Dahmer as a Guest Chef on Rachel Ray...or taking your sister to the prom as your date.

Wiki is almost always used as a platform for BS artists and wannabe's historians. Those who cite it are turd wranglers.

I have family that served with and under Mac, I believe them over Wiki. The "history" of the US in WW2 was written to absolve the ruling officer class of all responsability for their actions, same as VietNam and the Gulf.

US Military Afgter Action reports were almost always done by a Jr Officer and then vetted by a Sr Officer and always were written to reflect upon the unit admirably. I have NEVER read an after action or historical report by the US or UK military that stated "We/He/They 'effed up" or "We/He/They executed prisoners", etc, etc ad nauseum.

In OZ there have been several books that reference the mistresses, though one is referred to as the boy's amah (nurse).

Tell me just HOW Mac could buy 2 apartmenst in the Waldorf Towers on US Military pay? (we are talking close to $250K each in the 1950's) His involvement in Phillipine economy is well known but since Marcos & 9/11 all we want to do is focus on the Muslim faction in the Phillipines.

If you don't think writing and documentation of US policy regarding military in the Pacific post WW2 has been written to make us the good guys you are blind.

Inappropriate personal attack tw

turd wrangler, huh?

Not all wiki articles are complete and some are biased, but all history has a bit of conjecture in it. The part I quoted there is foot-noted to this:

James, D. Clayton (1970), "Volume 1, 1880–1941", The Years of MacArthur (Boston: Houghton Mifflin), ISBN 0-395-10948-5, OCLC 60070186

Rogers, Paul P. (1990), The Good Years: MacArthur and Sutherland, New York: Praeger Publishers, ISBN Praeger Publishers, OCLC 20452987

Morton, Louis (1953), The Fall of the Philippines, United States Army in World War II, Washington, D.C.: United States Department of the Army, ISBN 1410216969, OCLC 29293689

Valid references I would think.

The victor always writes history. War is a horrible, brutish thing and many things occur that don't really need to be rehashed for future generations. In the Pacific, we rarely took prisoners for several reasons, inc that the Japanese fought to the death. BUT also, as I have been told by many men of those campaigns, including my relatives, the average fighting man didnt want to take prisoners after the degree of savage fighting that took place. Add in the sneak attack at Pearl Harbor and the average American soldier's cultural upbringing and one can see that, in total war, few prisoners will be taken. So be it.

One Mc tidbit....

While his father was the Commander at Fort Sam Houston in Texas Douglas was an Alter Boy at the Episcopal church that was across the street from the base.

About the mistress thing....

The era and morality must be taken into account. He married fist in 1922, at the age of 42 and that ended in divorce. After the divorce he had a woman living with him who was not his wife. At the time the polite term for such a woman was 'mistress'. Such a living situation was not the best way to move up the ladder in the Military and was considered somewhat scandalous. The question people then asked was.... Did he know this woman before his divorce?

He married again in 1937. I don't know what became of his personal life after that.

I remember someone long ago told me that he 'married well'. Could his wife's money be the source of his income?

he was also a big wazoo at Remington Rand after his retirement, I bet he had a pretty sweet salary.

i wouldn't be surprised if the Waldorf housed him gratis. he was a huge celeb.

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Nt knowing facts leaves us with baseless speculation.

but moma, that's where the fun is....