The issue is one of scale, Aklim.

The issues are very simple.

1. He can cause more damage to you than you to him so right, wrong, indifferent, you stay away from him or stay off the road. Physics is a law that you cannot repeal. Human laws give way to physical laws.

2. Scale is a very nice thing to hide behind because it can be so subjective. If I have $50 only in the whole world, that is a loss that is very large. If I have 2 million dollars, $50 is insignificant. Which is why people like to talk scale. It gives them a lot of room to duck around. In my case, the guy not having insurance and damaging me costing me $1000 is more significant than if it happened to Bill Gates. Hence I find that people talking scale are doing it so they can mitigate their guilt.

How much damage your bike can do to my car is not much of an issue. Fact is, if you cause me to hit something, you might not be able to pay for it and all you can do is "Mea Culpa. No money. Sorry". So yes, if you want to use the road, be able to pay like every road user out there and pay for it and follow the rules. As a sideline, if you want to stay safe, follow the rules of physics or end up as a hood ornament.

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

I know how to ride a bicycle, Aklim. I've done more miles than most, so yes, I know how to survive on the streets.

As for "if you cause me to hit something," how does that work for a car? If you swerve to miss me and hit someone else, do you really think that I'm legally at fault?

Perhaps so. Apparently many of your fellow cyclists that I have see don't seem to understand it. I am acutely aware of it when I ride a bicycle and later on a motorcycle after my class. FINALLY, the state of WI has insisted that you have proof of insurance or financial responsibility for vehicles on the road. ALL my vehicles

In this day and age of tort, who knows? If Mr Bigbucks and his bike caused me to hit you, I'll bet your lawyer will find an angle or two or three to get him. After all, a bicycle is considered a vehicle so it would bear some responsibility. IIRC, years ago there was such an issue I read about in a newspaper. I am not sure of the outcome since I was on a vacation and didn't follow up on it. I think the poor old lady's lawyer went after the cyclist for either causing it or being aparty to it. Not totally sure about there but I do know the rich cyclist was sued as part of the whole thing.

In THIS case the cyclist was deemed at fault. Whether anything comes out if it is another story. You do know that they sued a 4 yo for an accident. Look at THAT case. There are implications of the bike shop, the brake manufacturer and maybe even the family dog. One guy even blamed the new car smell for his accident.

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

WRONG!!!!!!! Until you can show me YOUR IRS form 2290 show YOU having paid $550 a year, along with your completed IFTA form show you paid all your fuel(for all states traveled through even if you dont purchase fuel you must still pay the tax on the fuel burned) and road taxes( With one truck it totals over $10,000 a year) please dont say that trucks dont pay their fair share.

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86 300SDL. 250,xxx on #14 Head. One eye always on temp gauge.. Cruising towards 300K

Only if you neglect the fact that roads need to be repaired because of wear.

Heavy trucks cause so much more wear than cars, that I would need to pay less than half a dollar a year to keep up with their $550. And I'm likely overestimating my portion by quite a bit.

Trucks cause much, much more wear than cars. For every mile a truck goes, I would have to drive more than a thousand. Substantially more. Here's the first Google result for "road damage truck vs. car":

http://www.vabike.org/vehicle-weight-and-road-damage/

They say 9600:1. So I need to pay almost half a penny to equal your $550, if I'm to be not subsidizing you. Or your share needs to go up. Or admit that you accept an indirect subsidy, one that is not small.

Edit: Forgot about the extra $10K. So I'll throw in a buck, and we call it even? I pay a lot more than that.

Absolutely true.

Question. Obviously heavy trucks cause more damage. Do they use more fuel and hence pay more taxes that go towards the road maintenance?

Point is, up to now, you haven't paid a penny towards it in terms of fuel taxes any more than say someone who runs his car on WVO or homebrew bio.

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

trucks don't cause $hit compared to those damn huge grain chariots the farmers around here use.they haul like 1500 bushels at say 60 lbs a bushel,so theres 80k plus the weight of the cart and they haul it on 2 wheels.so your looking about 40-45k per tire.we have some roads around here where my jetta bottoms out on the hump in the road between the tire ruts.and farmers pay NO ROAD TAX period.it's called farm to market blah blah blah.

If I get busted for my first DUI, I guess I am still better than the guy who has 10 DUI offenses, right? Still doesn't make what I did right or any less dangerous, does it? Simply pointing out somebody who might be worse is like people talking of scale. It is a way to mitigate their guilt. Doesn't change the fact that they did something wrong as in the DUI case, does it?

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

No there isn't.

With Toyota being the number 1 car maker, it is safe to assume that there are more idiots driving Toyotas because of the sheer number on the road then there are to other cars.

And I ride my bike on the sidewalk sometimes. Beats getting hit by car any day.

In the case of bicycles, it is called a dead right. You may have had the right of way, but if you get hit you're dead. Aklim highlights this point very clearly.

I had to remind a friend of mine that he can't run intersections on a bicycle when he got hit by a car because it is considered a vehicle. He wanted the driver of the vehicle to pay for a new bike after he ran the intersection! He was bruised, but thankfully the cops agreed with the driver.

I'd like to see cops ticket more bicyclists. People on bikes need to realize that they are not in a 2000lbs moving death box and need to act according. Bike defensively and maneuver around dangerous intersections and areas.

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-Typos courtesy of my mobile phone.

I don't think he had the right of way. The car was in front of you as he approached the intersection and he pulled up alongside on the right.

Is that right Skippy?

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You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows - Robert A. Zimmerman

Wow guys...Can't we all just get along?

I am of the opinion drivers should sit in a glass bubble, right out in front of any type of vehicle. I reckon accident numbers would then drop a lot.

Trouble is, drivers don't see themselves a vulnerable when piloting a Hummer or other large bolide.

I had occasion to sell my 1962 VW Crew Cab after a near miss. I sat contemplating how much protection was afforded by the 1/32nd thick front panels. I concluded my knees are worthy of better protection.