Cheating at school - this time the people running the show - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

pj67coll · #46 07-15-2011, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchivito

The notion that teachers have "summers off" is nonsense,

That is true. Especially as the actual calender days during which they are "off" are reduced on a yearly basis. For my wife, used to be three months, now it's two and declining. Of course she doesn't get paid for that time off either.

Quote:

average annual salary of about 35K bucks.

That would be nice. My wife will have received a 15 thousand dollar income reduction over the last three years and is now below the average starting salary you mentioned. And that's after fourteen years in the classroom and a bachelors and masters degrees in science. The simple reality is it's not worth it any more. But the economy's so crap there's practically no chance for her to get out an do anything else.

I've come to the conclusion that the US educational system is so broken that it may not be possible to fix. We now face the unpleasant prospect of trying to find a decent school for my step son who will be in 8th grade this year. Despite being atheists both my wife and I are not raising any objections to his father trying to get him into a catholic school simply because of the decline in quality of the alternatives.

- Peter.

pj67coll · #47 07-15-2011, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonkovich

the parents are stupid and irresponsible. they don't read to their kids, don't listen to their kids, and don't teach them anything. easier to give them tv's, computers, gameboys (or whatever the latest things is? ps3? etc.) and cellphones. i see the results of the last 30 years of education/ society in my neighborhood, which has been overridden by these dirty hipsters. mindless consumers, addicted to whatever's "hip" and "cool". only able to assess things from a visual perspective. there will be a rude awakening when this society falls apart. (devo was right)

X2

- Peter.

pj67coll · #48 07-15-2011, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by engatwork

Not sure about other parts of the country but in rural Ga the teachers are the ones that are putting up with that crap all day from the spoiled brats but they are always the first to get cut. When I was in school here many years ago you had one superintendent and one secretary and each school had a principal with a couple secretaries. Now when you walk in you got a building full of the super/assist supers (three or four) and their secretaries totaling about 6 ppl making good money. Then you have the principals at the schools with their administration. The number of kids graduating every year has always been between 70 and 80. We had 75 in our graduating class.

Oh yea, they are building a brand new school that is going to cover k-12 grades. Millions of dollars of the taxpayers money being spent on that.

Hell, I could have written that post myself. What's happening here?

- Peter.

elchivito · #49 07-15-2011, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTUpower

Seems to me that there is no way for the teachers to pass along learning skills to unreceptive children no matter how much they or the school administrators are paid. You can staff a inner city school with the top .5% of teachers in the USA but when the kids dad is in loser in prison, dead or on crack and the mom is not much better (for the 5th generation) test scores are not going to rise.

When are we going to learn that you cannot teach those that are not open to learning what you are trying to teach. It actually takes alot of stupidity by the parents to put a kid in a place where he/she does not want to learn in school since all children by nature want badly to learn.

I'm all for giving parents X dollars for each child to go to school and schools then become private. If you blow the $ or buy some 22 inch rims instead of helping your kid learn then tough ***** for you and the kid. I'm sick of my (and everyone's) tax money being spend on your kid because you as a parent make the wrong choices.

You're absolutely correct. Nobody can teach anyone anything they don't want or aren't prepared to learn. At the risk of sounding like one of those "in my day blah blah blah" geezers, we used to be told that going to school was a privilege. Well, even though we believed it and it sure sounded nice and upright, it's not true. Going to school is a right. A legal right. It's not only a right, it's a responsibility. In this country, whether it's home "school", private, parochial or public, you have to go to school. Parents and kids know this now, and lawsuit after lawsuit has proven that the miscreant who is put outside the door to stop his disruption is having his rights violated, the rights of the other 24 who are trying to learn something be damned. I've read over the years of lots of lawsuits by parents whose little darlings were punished for misbehavior, but I don't believe I've ever ONCE heard of a suit brought by parents of good students against a school for failing to provide a calm, safe, non-disruptive environment in which their child can do his or her best. I've long believed that's what's called for.
Vouchers are a nice idea, but I'm afraid they'd only really work for parochial schools, which are generally church supported and that bothers me greatly. Church schools don't have the enormous tuition costs that private schools have. My son attended a private high school whose day student tuition was 19.5K dollars a year, and over 30K for boarding students. No way any government voucher is going to get anywhere close to sending a kid to that school. BTW, he went on tribal scholarships. My pockets aren't that deep. There are no cheap private schools that I know of of any repute at all. I have to agree that vouchers will only serve the upper middle classes and beyond, or those who want their kids to learn that the earth is only 6000 years old.

kerry · #50 07-15-2011, 12:29 PM

My wife's school is being completed repainted this summer, despite the fact that it did not need painting. My wife insisted her room not be painted to no avail. Every piece of door hardware in her school was replaced this year even though there was nothing wrong with the existing hardware. I've seen at least three other schools within a couple of miles of my house completely surrounded with construction fencing as millions in renovations are being done this summer. The school system's priorities are warped.

elchivito · #51 07-15-2011, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj67coll

That is true. Especially as the actual calender days during which they are "off" are reduced on a yearly basis. For my wife, used to be three months, now it's two and declining. Of course she doesn't get paid for that time off either.

That would be nice. My wife will have received a 15 thousand dollar income reduction over the last three years and is now below the average starting salary you mentioned. And that's after fourteen years in the classroom and a bachelors and masters degrees in science. The simple reality is it's not worth it any more. But the economy's so crap there's practically no chance for her to get out an do anything else.

I've come to the conclusion that the US educational system is so broken that it may not be possible to fix. We now face the unpleasant prospect of trying to find a decent school for my step son who will be in 8th grade this year. Despite being atheists both my wife and I are not raising any objections to his father trying to get him into a catholic school simply because of the decline in quality of the alternatives.

- Peter.

If you're in the east valley I'd recommend looking at St. Thomas the Apostle school on N. 24th st. I was expelled from there 100 years ago and can say with certainty it's an excellent school.

West side, SS Simon and Jude School on 27th Ave. above Maryland. Many cousins went there and went on to excel at Brophy Prep and Xavier girls' high schools.

MS Fowler · #52 07-15-2011, 12:32 PM

Parents ( some, or many, you decide) have the idea that its the schools job to educate their children. No. Emphatically, NO!. It is the parents responsibility to educate the children that they bring into the world. Public schools exist as an adjunct to assist the parents in the carrying out of their obligation. It is still the parents' responsibility.

There is no way any teacher can teach when their authority is undermined by parents.

The opportunity to an education is a right. But the responsibility for the education remains with the parents---unless you want to gran to the State the right to take kids away from bad parents.

Kuan · #53 07-15-2011, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

My wife's school is being completed repainted this summer, despite the fact that it did not need painting. My wife insisted her room not be painted to no avail. Every piece of door hardware in her school was replaced this year even though there was nothing wrong with the existing hardware. I've seen at least three other schools within a couple of miles of my house completely surrounded with construction fencing as millions in renovations are being done this summer. The school system's priorities are warped.

That's basically what happened to my local YMCA and why we are no longer supporting members. They renovated the parking lot at a cost of $750k when it hardly needed anything but some concrete curb patched up. Camp fees went from $120 to $200 in three years. Screw'em.

The Swede · #54 07-15-2011, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuan

That's basically what happened to my local YMCA and why we are no longer supporting members. They renovated the parking lot at a cost of $750k when it hardly needed anything but some concrete curb patched up. Camp fees went from $120 to $200 in three years. Screw'em.

They're remodeling the one near me. Huge renovation that'll be done in a few months. Waiting to see if my membership fee increases.

MagnumPI · #55 07-15-2011, 02:05 PM

Education: Free and Compulsory
http://mises.org/daily/2226

pj67coll · #56 07-15-2011, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchivito

If you're in the east valley I'd recommend looking at St. Thomas the Apostle school on N. 24th st. I was expelled from there 100 years ago and can say with certainty it's an excellent school.

West side, SS Simon and Jude School on 27th Ave. above Maryland. Many cousins went there and went on to excel at Brophy Prep and Xavier girls' high schools.

Were in the west, but the problem is not grade school, he'll do 8th grade where he is now, where my wife teaches. It's high school that's the problem.

- Peter.

pj67coll · #57 07-15-2011, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

My wife's school is being completed repainted this summer, despite the fact that it did not need painting. My wife insisted her room not be painted to no avail. Every piece of door hardware in her school was replaced this year even though there was nothing wrong with the existing hardware. I've seen at least three other schools within a couple of miles of my house completely surrounded with construction fencing as millions in renovations are being done this summer. The school system's priorities are warped.

Is it a simple case of warped priorities though or to do with budget and legal requirements though. Reason I say that it were stuck in a stupid situation where we are laying off people and reducing salaries while spending millions on new buildings. Right now I'm involved in building five new gym's and a new classroom extension. Problem is the money for all this was raised years ago in a bond election and we are not allowed to used it for any other purpose. So we have the ludicrous situation I just described but there's nothing we can do about it.

- Peter.

MTUpower · #58 07-16-2011, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchivito

You're absolutely correct. Nobody can teach anyone anything they don't want or aren't prepared to learn. At the risk of sounding like one of those "in my day blah blah blah" geezers, we used to be told that going to school was a privilege. Well, even though we believed it and it sure sounded nice and upright, it's not true. Going to school is a right. A legal right. It's not only a right, it's a responsibility. In this country, whether it's home "school", private, parochial or public, you have to go to school. Parents and kids know this now, and lawsuit after lawsuit has proven that the miscreant who is put outside the door to stop his disruption is having his rights violated, the rights of the other 24 who are trying to learn something be damned. I've read over the years of lots of lawsuits by parents whose little darlings were punished for misbehavior, but I don't believe I've ever ONCE heard of a suit brought by parents of good students against a school for failing to provide a calm, safe, non-disruptive environment in which their child can do his or her best. I've long believed that's what's called for.
Vouchers are a nice idea, but I'm afraid they'd only really work for parochial schools, which are generally church supported and that bothers me greatly. Church schools don't have the enormous tuition costs that private schools have. My son attended a private high school whose day student tuition was 19.5K dollars a year, and over 30K for boarding students. No way any government voucher is going to get anywhere close to sending a kid to that school. BTW, he went on tribal scholarships. My pockets aren't that deep. There are no cheap private schools that I know of of any repute at all. I have to agree that vouchers will only serve the upper middle classes and beyond, or those who want their kids to learn that the earth is only 6000 years old.

There was a good article in the local paper the other day that said public schools are more costly than private schools because private schools can exclude some students- like those that need extra attention, have babies, or are chronic problems- those students which cost the school way more than the average student.

I feel exactly the same way about putting a problem child in a class where they then dominate the learning environment so that everyone elses learning suffers.

My life's experience tells me too many poor people have the same trait as terrorists: they want everyone to feel the pain they feel (as if the reasons why they themselves failed in education, finances, and other areas have nothing to do with their pain). It takes very few weak links in a web of chains to bring down the whole group in the net. My wife's experience as a K-5 teacher as related to me has only served to reinforce the conclusion.

pj67coll · #59 07-16-2011, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTUpower

There was a good article in the local paper the other day that said public schools are more costly than private schools because private schools can exclude some students- like those that need extra attention, have babies, or are chronic problems- those students which cost the school way more than the average student.

I feel exactly the same way about putting a problem child in a class where they then dominate the learning environment so that everyone elses learning suffers.

I agree

- Peter.

MS Fowler · #60 07-16-2011, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj67coll

I agree

- Peter.

We should be encouraging excellence; instead we teach to the lowest common denominator.