Do you think that paying a high salary guarantees more qualified personnel?

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

That's what the CEO's of multinationals argue.

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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

And its to the shame of the Boards of Directors that they accept that.
There MAY be a correlation between compensation and performance and ethical behavior, but there may not be.
Accountability--we all need to be accountable to someone.

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

If you believe Wall Street.

and labor unions.

Pumpkin .............

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1984 300TD 1981 240D

Seems to me that there is no way for the teachers to pass along learning skills to unreceptive children no matter how much they or the school administrators are paid. You can staff a inner city school with the top .5% of teachers in the USA but when the kids dad is in loser in prison, dead or on crack and the mom is not much better (for the 5th generation) test scores are not going to rise.

When are we going to learn that you cannot teach those that are not open to learning what you are trying to teach. It actually takes alot of stupidity by the parents to put a kid in a place where he/she does not want to learn in school since all children by nature want badly to learn.

I'm all for giving parents X dollars for each child to go to school and schools then become private. If you blow the $ or buy some 22 inch rims instead of helping your kid learn then tough ***** for you and the kid. I'm sick of my (and everyone's) tax money being spend on your kid because you as a parent make the wrong choices.

You're absolutely correct. Nobody can teach anyone anything they don't want or aren't prepared to learn. At the risk of sounding like one of those "in my day blah blah blah" geezers, we used to be told that going to school was a privilege. Well, even though we believed it and it sure sounded nice and upright, it's not true. Going to school is a right. A legal right. It's not only a right, it's a responsibility. In this country, whether it's home "school", private, parochial or public, you have to go to school. Parents and kids know this now, and lawsuit after lawsuit has proven that the miscreant who is put outside the door to stop his disruption is having his rights violated, the rights of the other 24 who are trying to learn something be damned. I've read over the years of lots of lawsuits by parents whose little darlings were punished for misbehavior, but I don't believe I've ever ONCE heard of a suit brought by parents of good students against a school for failing to provide a calm, safe, non-disruptive environment in which their child can do his or her best. I've long believed that's what's called for.
Vouchers are a nice idea, but I'm afraid they'd only really work for parochial schools, which are generally church supported and that bothers me greatly. Church schools don't have the enormous tuition costs that private schools have. My son attended a private high school whose day student tuition was 19.5K dollars a year, and over 30K for boarding students. No way any government voucher is going to get anywhere close to sending a kid to that school. BTW, he went on tribal scholarships. My pockets aren't that deep. There are no cheap private schools that I know of of any repute at all. I have to agree that vouchers will only serve the upper middle classes and beyond, or those who want their kids to learn that the earth is only 6000 years old.

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You're a daisy if you do.
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84 Euro 240D 4spd. 220.5k sold
04 Honda Element AWD
1985 F150 XLT 4x4, 351W with 270k miles, hay hauler
1997 Suzuki Sidekick 4x4
1993 Toyota 4wd Pickup 226K and counting

There was a good article in the local paper the other day that said public schools are more costly than private schools because private schools can exclude some students- like those that need extra attention, have babies, or are chronic problems- those students which cost the school way more than the average student.

I feel exactly the same way about putting a problem child in a class where they then dominate the learning environment so that everyone elses learning suffers.

My life's experience tells me too many poor people have the same trait as terrorists: they want everyone to feel the pain they feel (as if the reasons why they themselves failed in education, finances, and other areas have nothing to do with their pain). It takes very few weak links in a web of chains to bring down the whole group in the net. My wife's experience as a K-5 teacher as related to me has only served to reinforce the conclusion.

Not necessarily. But higher entry salaries might encourage a better quality of first year teacher applicants.

Completing 4 years of college and, unless you were on a full ride somewhere or your parents had deep pockets, you're about 50-80K dollars in debt from the get go. Then, after signing your first contract, you're under the gun in most state to complete a master's degree before your certificate expires, or in many cases in as little as 2 or 3 years while working full time, this at your own expense. The notion that teachers have "summers off" is nonsense, especially beginning teachers, who typically spend summers at their own expense working on post graduate degrees. Even if not required, the only way to move up a salary scale in any school is by steps based on additional credit hours.
The beginning teacher has to figure out how to pay back college loans, pay for new coursework and keep a roof over his or her head at a starting average annual salary of about 35K bucks. Go into any school in the nation and chances are you'll find that most of the faculty is married to somebody who works in the private sector and earns more money.
One of my former students is a sophomore in college and she recently credited me for inspiring her to be a teacher. I honestly don't know whether to feel good about that or not. If I were starting out now, I'd be looking in a different direction. Too many hoops to jump thru and too many bureaucratic butts to kiss for less money than a bartender or cocktail waitress earns in a good house.
Those who go into teaching for "the money" don't last long, especially now with the high percentage of pigs' ears they are expected to turn into silk purses, but the nineteenth century attitude that teachers were supposed to be poorly paid and non-materially inspired single workaholics with no life of their own has a long way to go in this country before it dies. We want our educators to be saints, and saints don't need money and are perfect all the time.

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You're a daisy if you do.
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84 Euro 240D 4spd. 220.5k sold
04 Honda Element AWD
1985 F150 XLT 4x4, 351W with 270k miles, hay hauler
1997 Suzuki Sidekick 4x4
1993 Toyota 4wd Pickup 226K and counting

That is true. Especially as the actual calender days during which they are "off" are reduced on a yearly basis. For my wife, used to be three months, now it's two and declining. Of course she doesn't get paid for that time off either.

That would be nice. My wife will have received a 15 thousand dollar income reduction over the last three years and is now below the average starting salary you mentioned. And that's after fourteen years in the classroom and a bachelors and masters degrees in science. The simple reality is it's not worth it any more. But the economy's so crap there's practically no chance for her to get out an do anything else.

I've come to the conclusion that the US educational system is so broken that it may not be possible to fix. We now face the unpleasant prospect of trying to find a decent school for my step son who will be in 8th grade this year. Despite being atheists both my wife and I are not raising any objections to his father trying to get him into a catholic school simply because of the decline in quality of the alternatives.

- Peter.

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2021 Chevrolet Spark
Formerly...
2000 GMC Sonoma
1981 240D 4spd stick. 347000 miles. Deceased Feb 14 2021
2002 Kia Rio. Worst crap on four wheels
1981 240D 4spd stick. 389000 miles.
1984 123 200
1979 116 280S
1972 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1971 108 280S

If you're in the east valley I'd recommend looking at St. Thomas the Apostle school on N. 24th st. I was expelled from there 100 years ago and can say with certainty it's an excellent school.
West side, SS Simon and Jude School on 27th Ave. above Maryland. Many cousins went there and went on to excel at Brophy Prep and Xavier girls' high schools.

__________________
You're a daisy if you do.
__________________________________
84 Euro 240D 4spd. 220.5k sold
04 Honda Element AWD
1985 F150 XLT 4x4, 351W with 270k miles, hay hauler
1997 Suzuki Sidekick 4x4
1993 Toyota 4wd Pickup 226K and counting

Were in the west, but the problem is not grade school, he'll do 8th grade where he is now, where my wife teaches. It's high school that's the problem.

- Peter.

__________________
2021 Chevrolet Spark
Formerly...
2000 GMC Sonoma
1981 240D 4spd stick. 347000 miles. Deceased Feb 14 2021
2002 Kia Rio. Worst crap on four wheels
1981 240D 4spd stick. 389000 miles.
1984 123 200
1979 116 280S
1972 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1971 108 280S