Mine sure didn't.

How many HS students can diagram a sentence?

For brevity sake I have excised. Complete quote is above.

I introduced this topic for discussion because I believe it is important.

I am not a 'secret agent' of the right. I'm an observant individual who believes many dreadful decisions have been made during my lifetime.

Here are some statistical generalization that I will gladly defend:

1. The quality of education has drastically lowered in the past 100 years.

2. Massive increases in expenditures have not stopped this.

3. The main response of the status quo is to demand an increase in the approach that has been is use during items 1 & 2.

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I thought you were in the military in Singapore?

- Peter.

Tom- now that you no longer have the power to issue infractions to those who have a different view of union teachers than you, I will respond to your opinions. As a product of, and a parent of three children in the public school system I believe I have an informed view. First off- the teachers union does not exist for the benefit of the students. Nothing they do or stand for in any way helps to further the betterment of education. They are a left wing organization bent on imposing their agenda on the children, and enriching themselves at my expense while doing it. My kids go to one of the best public schools in the country, yet at the 10th grade level my daughter is doing work I did in the sixth grade. But she has learned a lot of things I wasn't taught; Global warming, gay rights, hate speech, American bad, everyone else good, etc..

Public education is under attack from the religous right? Are you serious? You make it sound like they don't want the kids to learn. What they don't want is a bunch of highly paid leftist indoctrinating the kids when they are supposed to be teaching them the three R's. For the record- kids who go to religous schools receive a vastly superior education than those from public schools. This was not true when I went to public school. The bottom line is; the system is broken. Kids are not receiving a quality education because the union teachers and administrators are not about doing what is right for the student, but what is right for their agenda and pocketbook. You can't convince me that an organization that would appoint Kevin Jennings as its "safe schools" czar has my kids education as their priority, and not a politically correct agenda. Yet they always want more money even though the districts that spend the most per pupil have the worst scores/ graduation rates!

All of what I wrote above certainly does not mean I think every union teacher is evil, or out to further the radical agenda, but unfortunately enough of them are to where they are the norm rather than the exception. I am in contact with, and friends and neighbors with a lot of my kids teachers, Sadly the ones who are truly interested in educating are retiring due to the hostile environment for those who don't follow the party line. Go to any school and look in the teachers parking lot and count the Obama bumper stickers versus the McCain ones and you will quickly see what side the teachers are on.

My personal experience, as well as those of my children, with the public school system is pretty much the opposite of the post above.

:rolleyes:Then she is not going to one of the best public schools in the country.Are you suggesting that science classes should not teach anything about global warming? That would be a fairly radical, politically-motivated change to the science curriculum.I'm going to call baloney on that one. America is big enough, IMHO, to withstand criticism now and then. What are you afraid of? People are still getting after Obama for his so-called apology tour. All he did was enhance our reputation abroad by saying things that everyone knows to be true but for some reason would not say. He didn't cast the country in a bad light, at all. People are way too thin-skinned on that one, IMHO.Yep, pretty much. http://www.texastribune.org/texas-education/public-education/texas-social-studies-receive-failing-grade/

So is mine, and I have a teensy bit of experience in that field. In 30 plus years as a teacher and administrator, I never belonged to a "union", neither the NEA nor the AFT. Some of my teachers did, but not many. YMMV, as AZ is a right to work state. There is no doubt some negative influence from unions on the current state of education, but there are so many other factors that blaming it solely on them is a gross oversimplification.

:rolleyes:- It happened- I saw it with my own two eyes

Yes she is -you don't know where she or I went to school.

Teach them everything- not just the part that fits your agenda.

If you think Obama has enhanced our reputation abroad I'm really not sure we live on the same planet, so further discussion is futile.

I went to school till 16 and went to KY. Went back to that place to fulfill my legal obligation to the country and serve in the draft there. After my 731 days in the military, I left as fast as I could back to Sioux Falls, SD to continue my schooling.

Of course every individual example is unique.

That's why, with large numbers, we take statistical analysis.

Not that it matters but I'll easily defend my position that the average, overall education level that is both being taught and retained has significantly declined.

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Further students are taught values and topics that I find highly offensive and directly contradict mine. I believe many parents have a similar perspective. When I was a child (IMO) this was much less so.

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Finally, regarding man-made, global-warming, as a dire threat to human existence and warranting a trillion+ dollar degradation to the world's economy;

I'm glad to have it taught as what it is -

1. a hypothesis
2. an agenda used by certain groups to promote their social/economic goals
3. a funding source for researchers

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Not surprisingly I am exceptionally close agreement with what you have said with one caveat.

Terms are thrown about and loosely defined so it's hard to be precise but ...

There is a group, I'm not sure of their size, that often fall under the category of 'religious right.'

On OD and in this thread we have seen certain individuals (more than one) who display an extreme and apparently irrational response to ideas or perspectives different than their own.

Quite a few folks have said, "hmm, somethings going on here which has nothing to do with these ideas or this conversation."

In the same way quite a few folks who would fall under the banner of the 'religious right' seem to be irrational, frightened and hostile. They seem incapable of doing little more then repeating hackneyed slogans and foaming at the mouth.

Now before the other side get's all atwitter, rest assured you have your comparable group of 'looney-tunes' as well.

The demands before us are challenging enough without completely going off the deep-end.

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The State of Hawaii is predominantly a Democratic Party state; has a teacher's union (HSTA) and has only statewide school district, run by the state's Department of Education with oversight through a Board of Education. In some national survey's Hawaii ranks near or at the bottom, possibly ahead of states like Nevada and Arizona, but not by much.

However, all my children graduated public high school and were accepted to college on the mainland and in Hawaii. Just lucky? ;)

^^^

You guys do know I'm in California.

They may as well amend the State's constitution and put in a 4th branch of government: SEIU, NEA, etc.

You have to walk down the corridors of the various institutions were I use to work & try to keep a straight-face about the benign influence of the educational unions.

I use to get political propaganda pieces in my work e-mail. I complained to the administration. They said these things happen. I asked how come they only happened from one side of the political spectrum?

I twice surveyed the faculty and employees; 15% felt significant threats and intimidation at work. I approached management and asked to have the e-mail practices stopped. They refused. I threatened action under a 'hostile work-place environment.'

They chose to not renew my employment.

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The messages we teach our youth at academia.

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Ditto. I don't have kids but my nieces go to public school here in DFW. the older one is taking AP classes and will be able to finish College in 3 yrs verses two. Smart girl and we can have some very educate discussions. I'm quite impressed for a 15 yr old.

Or possibly it was because you agreed with what was being taught. I know I did not. And I was not alone.

All I remember being taught/told was essentially that the USA was good, never did anything bad and that we were the savior of the globe. Gays were never even mentioned. Civil rights and slavery were a foot note in the history books. Native American history did not even get the foot note.

I would argue that at least in this regard, the US education system is vastly improved. Just my opinion but judging from most of your comments on the board if you are offended by some of what is taught, I think they are goig in the right direction.

All this is entirely correct. However missing in the overview is the "quality" of the education the kids are recieving today. If kids are not challenged by and held accountable to high standards the education is not worth squat. I also work in an educational environment as does my wife. My expeirence of what I see in the classroom across 14 schools varies widely but to say that it is what I'd consider a "quality" education is incorrect. I'm an athiest. In fact so is my wife but despite that I'm not really objecting too much to my step son's fathers attempt to get him into a catholic high school because the simple reality is that the standards of public high schools that we have access to are so abyssmaly low. But then I'll also point out that I don't think much of the sandards of our three state universities either.

- Peter.