Need advice on a 300E - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

#1 01-31-2002, 05:01 PM

I have a chance to purchase a 1993 300E with 99K in showroom cond. I have been in Saabs (LP is sobsrty) since I started driving and my family has owned MB Diesels since '74. I need some unbiased opinions, my father thinks I'm nuts to consider a gas engine and my wife thinks 99K is to many miles. What kind of history do these cars have? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

jsmith · #2 01-31-2002, 05:26 PM

what's the price? this model year is tagged as a "stay away" on consumer reports. it was the year they switched to the m104 engine which proved to be more problematic for that year. check the January issue of R&T. the E series has one of the highest customer satisfaction ratings on MB's ever, regardless. also note that i have one of these...

#3 02-01-2002, 09:45 AM

Joe,
The dealer is asking $14,500. Test drove it yesterday, very impressive.
Thanks
Chris

G-Benz · #4 02-01-2002, 10:54 AM

First the bad news: After 99K, you may be in for some expensive repairs ahead...

the good news is these cars are pretty easy to fix!

OK, now that I've scared you, here's what to watch out for:

Get the main engine wiring harness inspected and repaired ASAP! These harnesses (92-94) had faulty wiring insulation, and broke down with heat and age, exposing bare wiring, causing all sorts of weird performance problems. MB dealers would replace these free of charge under their "goodwill" policy if the car has less than 100K mi. on it. Hundreds of $$$ to have it done otherwise.

The M104 (and M103) engines are known to have head gasket failures, most by the time they reach 150K. The different block and head alloys combined with the longitudinal mating surface area were generally considered the source of the problem. Most of us 300E owners expect this to happen eventually, and when it does, it's probably time to look at valve stem seals and timing chain components anyway, so we do a full circle top-end refreshing. MB techs say the head gasket replacement is an easy job, but it could cost you upwards of $1500 to do so.

The first oil leak you may notice will come from the front of the engine, and that is the timing chain cover seal leaking. You can fix it, or live with it, but it will only get worse. If the leak is from the rear of the engine, then the head gasket is giving you fair warning, so get the front seal replaced while the head is off.

I haven't had to pull my M104 head off yet, but I know it's a matter of time. Might be an old wives' tale, but easy warm ups before venturing out could slow the process.

The coolant pump and radiator will be next to go...the radiators almost always crack at the plastic neck where the inlet hose meets the coolant pump. New OEM units have a reinforced metal sleeve, but a new radiator is about $300. The coolant pump will fail after 100K...usually not catastrophically, but you will see a trail of coolant dripping off the block when the seal goes...a new unit can be had for $250, but it could cost you $800+ to have it repaired at the dealer.

The belt tensioner (primarily the shock bushing), wears out eventually, and you will notice that when you hear a clanking noise during idle...don't worry, it's not a rod going south...the bottom ends on these engines are bulletproof! The belt tensioner is about $250, but some can just replace the bushing and be done with it.

The other items are typically wear and tear...control arm bushings, shocks, brakes, etc.

Other items: the rear window motor assemblies. You will lose at least one during your ownership (I lost both within a year). The plastic window slider that holds the glass onto the track eventually "blows out" and hangs up the whole operation (can't open or close all the way). The entire assemblies are $140 each...that's the route I went until I found out much later in this forum that the plasic pieces can be had for about $2!!

Now that you know what to expect, you can enjoy the car!!! I feel better knowing what could happen than not knowing and then being shocked when something DOES fail...

Again, stay with the forum, as most or all of those problems are DIY repairs...save tons of $$$ as the parts for these cars aren't bad!

As a 93 300E owner, all I can say is that save for the head gasket, I have had everything else happen (and then some). Still, over the four years I have owned the car (purchased with 72.5K on the clock), it has been extremely reliable. Plus, it's the only other car (other than my 73 VW) that I can wrench on myself.

Good luck and happy motoring!

hitch02 · #5 02-01-2002, 11:05 AM

A close friend of mine bought a '93 - it's an impressive car with the 217hp engine, and came fully loaded. She bought it with about 75K 2 years ago, and now has about 105K. In that time, she has put about $4500 into repairs ranging from head gasket to a/c to injectors. I don't have the complete list, but you get the idea. A dealer friend once told me that a lot goes wrong with 124s around 70K-80K - I don't know if that's true. I had a '91 300E with 125K that had no major problems other than needing a new IP - but it couldn't touch the '93 in performance.

Fundamentally, hers is a good car, I just think the wise move would be a thorough PPI from a reputable shop or dealership. A good one of these would be a gem, and a bad one would be a nightmare.

-Reed
'84 300D/T

JCE · #6 02-01-2002, 11:08 AM

these threads may add to the good info above (make sure that the AC has already been switched to R134a or rebuilt with r12 recently - replacing the under-dash components is expensive. If it hasn't been done, take $1500 off the price, IMHO)

Opinions requested. Looking at an '86 300E.

High Mileage 300E's?

Buying '91 300E

300E Costs...?

WHICH USED BENZ FOR $20,000 OR LESS

MB V.S. VOLVO

#7 02-01-2002, 11:21 AM

Wow, I would like to thank you all for some great info! I will definetley go back to the dealer with some good questions. My second Saab was a 1986 900T, over the 8 years that I owned it I put $9K (only paid $9K hence my LP sobstory)into it, and that was through a great local mechanic. I would like to avoid that situation again or I might as well buy new(er)!
Thanks again! I'll post an update

jsmith · #8 02-01-2002, 12:51 PM

i've had the benz almost six months now. spent about $3.5k on body work, head gasket, wiring harness and a set of wheels and tires. still got a couple of big ticket items that can wait but i'm pretty much convinced it's a keeper. for this much car, there's nothing out there in the same price range.

BTW, the head gasket is easily diagnosed but the wiring harness isn't. mine didn't rear it's ugly head until i had the head gasket done, at which point i didn't have a choice. the only way to check if it's been replaced is to look at the tag near the main connector -it has a date of manufacture on it...

#9 03-12-2002, 10:04 PM

Regarding the " goodwill " policy MB dealers replacing engine wiring, is this "policy" restricted to the USA ?? Does anyone know if this is available in Europe..or Canada ?....I`ve asked my local dealer re: this , with predictable results..." must be an American thing " If it is only availabe in the USA, why ?

Quote:

Originally posted by G-Benz
First the bad news: After 99K, you may be in for some expensive repairs ahead...

the good news is these cars are pretty easy to fix!

OK, now that I've scared you, here's what to watch out for:

Get the main engine wiring harness inspected and repaired ASAP! These harnesses (92-94) had faulty wiring insulation, and broke down with heat and age, exposing bare wiring, causing all sorts of weird performance problems. MB dealers would replace these free of charge under their "goodwill" policy if the car has less than 100K mi. on it. Hundreds of $$$ to have it done otherwise.

The M104 (and M103) engines are known to have head gasket failures, most by the time they reach 150K. The different block and head alloys combined with the longitudinal mating surface area were generally considered the source of the problem. Most of us 300E owners expect this to happen eventually, and when it does, it's probably time to look at valve stem seals and timing chain components anyway, so we do a full circle top-end refreshing. MB techs say the head gasket replacement is an easy job, but it could cost you upwards of $1500 to do so.

The first oil leak you may notice will come from the front of the engine, and that is the timing chain cover seal leaking. You can fix it, or live with it, but it will only get worse. If the leak is from the rear of the engine, then the head gasket is giving you fair warning, so get the front seal replaced while the head is off.

I haven't had to pull my M104 head off yet, but I know it's a matter of time. Might be an old wives' tale, but easy warm ups before venturing out could slow the process.

The coolant pump and radiator will be next to go...the radiators almost always crack at the plastic neck where the inlet hose meets the coolant pump. New OEM units have a reinforced metal sleeve, but a new radiator is about $300. The coolant pump will fail after 100K...usually not catastrophically, but you will see a trail of coolant dripping off the block when the seal goes...a new unit can be had for $250, but it could cost you $800+ to have it repaired at the dealer.

The belt tensioner (primarily the shock bushing), wears out eventually, and you will notice that when you hear a clanking noise during idle...don't worry, it's not a rod going south...the bottom ends on these engines are bulletproof! The belt tensioner is about $250, but some can just replace the bushing and be done with it.

The other items are typically wear and tear...control arm bushings, shocks, brakes, etc.

Other items: the rear window motor assemblies. You will lose at least one during your ownership (I lost both within a year). The plastic window slider that holds the glass onto the track eventually "blows out" and hangs up the whole operation (can't open or close all the way). The entire assemblies are $140 each...that's the route I went until I found out much later in this forum that the plasic pieces can be had for about $2!!

Now that you know what to expect, you can enjoy the car!!! I feel better knowing what could happen than not knowing and then being shocked when something DOES fail...

Again, stay with the forum, as most or all of those problems are DIY repairs...save tons of $$$ as the parts for these cars aren't bad!

As a 93 300E owner, all I can say is that save for the head gasket, I have had everything else happen (and then some). Still, over the four years I have owned the car (purchased with 72.5K on the clock), it has been extremely reliable. Plus, it's the only other car (other than my 73 VW) that I can wrench on myself.

Good luck and happy motoring!

wiring harness " goodwill " policy

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