Originally Posted by dropnosky

But why would whether or not it was personally ordered by Hitler make a difference on responsibility? Even if not directly responsible, given his message of hate towards the Jewish people and blame he placed on them all that is well publicized in things like "Mein Kampf", its logical to assume that he was neck deep in the "final solution", even if there isn't evidence that points to him direct. (which I don't know either way)

What he, as an evil man, and the Nazi party (as an evil idea) did was create a situation where other evil men could act without consequence. Whether or not there is a document signed by him that says "yes, do this" or not is irrelevant to the horror of what actually happened, and the blame they all share.

It does not lesson the atrocity, IMO, it makes it worse. The numbers don't mean anything either.

As an example, here is a quote by Vera Alexander (taken from wikipedia), a Jewish inmate at Auschwitz that looked after 50 sets of Romani twins.

I remember one set of twins in particular: Guido and Ina, aged about four. One day, Mengele took them away. When they returned, they were in a terrible state: they had been sewn together, back to back, like Siamese twins. Their wounds were infected and oozing pus. They screamed day and night. Then their parents – I remember the mother's name was Stella – managed to get some morphine and they killed the children in order to end their suffering.[27]

The scale of such a horrible act would have necessitated the execution of anyone involved, all the way up to Hitler, and thats just one pair of twins, let alone the millions that actually did die. There is no apology for this, and there should be no forgiving or lessening of the lesson the world learned. We HAVE to remember, because this type of stuff was beyond anything in history, deliberate, mechanized extermination of a people.

Certainly many atrocities happened to American Indians, but they were not rounded up by federal policy and killed as fast as possible to eliminate them as a people using the latest in industrial techniques. They were in conflict with the US government as a result of the policy of Manifest Destiny, not a scapegoat for any and all problems currently at odds in the US at the time.

Originally Posted by chilcutt

You seem to be fixated on the Nazi/Jewish Holocaust.

So, it is OK with you that Native Americans were destroyed by Europeans, and the United States Government?

Seems to me that it is some Americans belief that 1 American life is 1 too many to lose when it comes to the U.S,'s little military adventures.
To the point that it is just great that atomic bombs were dropped on the Japanese-100's of thousands of Iraqi's have been destroyed.

And you do not have 1 word of remorse for the original Americans who died in America's Holocaust.

Your bias is obvious, as well as being a predictable view..hence the basis for this thread. I am not sure if you realise that you are doing the same thing you accuse LaRondo of doing. Probably not.

You have played your part so very well. Bravo.

Originally Posted by LaRondo

I appreciate your effort in accurately assessing the developments throughout this thread.
You are correct in the first paragraph of your edit.

It was foreseeable, the thread would run off into a certain direction. For that matter I have given the input I gave, not without awareness that it will arouse emotions even more. A risk you have to take.

In my view the thread displays well, "The Holocaust Culture" is deeply and successfully hardwired into the American conscience.
As such it aids as leverage to justify, reduce, belittle or even negate/nullify any other crime against humanity, incl. crimes inflicted during the course of imperial conquest by any applicable entity.
The "Holocaust Culture" as it presents itself, is absolutely unique to the North American society.

I purposely stay generic. It makes no difference how accurate one displays details. Confrontation on this subject is inevitable, regardless.

The OP would have suggested to remain neutral on the topic or better to provide insight into the many aspects of the fate of American Indians, North American Indians in particular, with emphasis on the fact that this atrocity took place on the soil of this continent. A domestic predicament.

Originally Posted by LaRondo

You left out the primary and major part of my post. By doing so, you avoided an advance displayed in my post.
Accounting for the primary section of my post, would have saved you the time of posting what you did.
You confirm exactly what I posted previously. It's a cycle of bewilderment.

Btw, there is a thread about Wikipedia's reliability.

Originally Posted by Botnst

No broad-brushing Germans from me. I'm just straight-up calling you a bigot. German or not. Like most bigots with a brain you conceal it with the fig leaf of equivalency -- as though all American Indians (for example) are morally equivalent to all Jews. the road to bigotry is when we congeal a group and attribute unary behavior to that group. the next step is to justify that amalgamation through careful selection of evidence to fit the model. It becomes self-fulfilling.

I'll take the infraction for calling you out. Some things cannot be left unsaid.

Originally Posted by dropnosky

and?

You are a master of implication, but very little clarity. The thread in question is here-

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/open-discussion/318524-reliability-wikipedia-2.html

an excerpt, pointing to wikipedia being (gasp) not a terrible source of information. Seems like its on par with other encyclopedias, which is impressive given how it works. However, this article itself is in Wikipedia, so by your standards, I would call this also false information.

Several studies have been done to assess the reliability of Wikipedia. A notable early study in the journal said that in 2005, Wikipedia scientific articles came close to the level of accuracy in and had a similar rate of "serious errors". The study by Nature was disputed by Encyclopędia Britannica, and later Nature responded to this refutation with both a formal response and a point-by-point rebuttal of Britannica's main objections. Between 2008 and 2010, articles in medical and scientific fields such as , , and comparing Wikipedia to professional and sources found that Wikipedia's depth and coverage were of a high standard.

Originally Posted by dropnosky

I don't think Holocaust is the correct word for this. I would use the word "overwhelmed".

There simply weren't enough Native Americans, and of that number, not enough unity between them to pose a serious threat to the expansion of the United States. I would describe their effect on inevitable US expansion as more of an irritant, if we want to be completely honest about it.

Also, like said before a couple times, the defeat, overwhelming, assimilation, relocation of native cultures happened over hundreds of years with huge numbers of different parties. It was not a shocking single atrocity like the Holocaust in Europe, perpetrated by a single regime pursuing a specific goal.

Originally Posted by tbomachines

Asking people to read on this forum is like asking them to perform their own root canal. Good luck.

Originally Posted by panZZer

Is this what i do with the Vile drunken drunkards on the other side of the fence-- half of which has his wife and two kids living in the shed behind the drunkards house, those people who only seen to live for getting drunk and having meals on wheels show up around noon with some hot styrofoam containers, and by evening time are well past popping tops--and the mother is going on "muther fucin This--God #damit that ' teaching to two kids its appropriate to be vile. The father put a down payment on the biggest excursion he could get--instead of getting his family out of the shed..............

Originally Posted by chilcutt

I will accept your last paragraph as true.

But your first paragraph takes us back to points discussed in post's #26-#56-#59, which I feel better describe the events that occurred. As well as the comparison to the Jewish Holocaust.

Originally Posted by chilcutt

Just noticed you popped in, how ya doin?Long time no see.

Originally Posted by panZZer

My mother passed and have been going thru the process, unresolved issued that wont ever be and that sort of thing.......

Originally Posted by tbomachines

Asking people to read on this forum is like asking them to perform their own root canal. Good luck.

Originally Posted by chilcutt

I havent found info on the Olmec's yet.

Originally Posted by dropnosky

heres the rest of it. Wheres the advance? are you referring to the "holocaust culture" part?

Still doesn't change the point I made, or your evasion of that either. I could say in return that posting condescending unclear responses is kind of irritating as a tactic of discussion.

I don't agree with your comment about "Holocaust culture unique to north American culture" and would ask you to support it.

My honest belief is that the two don't compare, as I said earlier, its a muli hundred year consequence of expansion compared with an act of genocide. They don't stand side by side.