whatever helps you sleep at night. :rolleyes:

Went back and tried to avoid an infraction....;)
Don't make no nevermind to me, we're just discussing.
If you don't get a little hot, then you must not be paying attention.
But thanks for the effort Babe... It is Babe, right???:D

you got it;);)

Just a round about way of saying the second amendment is old fashioned and needs an update. The "im on your side" angle is a nice touch. It still comes off a bit holier then thou.

In the old west you would need five six round guns to equal one gun with a 30 round magazine. This would surely slow a killer down.

Who's standard of crazy do we get to use? Mine? Do we get to bust down doors to find them? Do we mandate that every man woman and child get tested? How often do they get tested? I guess we could do it when you get a picture ID as every person will have to have one (guess that solves the voter fraud issue).

Come on. I am sure you have thought this one through. Lets hear the details of your plan.

The definition of crazy usually is arrived after an action. There are no known defenses of "crazy" except 1984 style monitoring which introduces a bevy of flaws and right restrictions. That only leaves defense from possible actions by crazy people. That in itself is flawed due to the altering of environments and inherent risks involved.

Point is this, since the people that wish harm are hard to pinpoint then all that is left is defense. Removing access to weapons is incorrect and is penalizing the lawful owners of such. That leaves hardening security and education of the threat.

This is nothing more then a brick by brick attempt of disassembling the second amendment then the safety of any school.

I wrote the stuff in the other paragraphs first destracting Me from the obvious. In the case of the recent Murders we don't know who the Guy planned to shoot or even if He had a plan. But, if someone had mannaged to get away duing a Magazine Change it appears that He simply would have shot someone else that came along because there was no one there to stop Him from doing that.


It actually has already been done.
Back in the Civil War Quantrill’s Guerilla Riders besides the Revolvers on their Belt carried a bunch of other Revolvers in Holsters on their Saddle.

I find it difficult to imagine how Children could have gotten away even if a Magazine would have needed to have been changed. A lot of School Rooms only have one Door in and out.

I have not read that a 30 round Magazine was used in this recent Crime but I could have missed that.

Semiautomatic Pistols are extremely fast to change magazines on. When one Magazine is empty the Slide on the Gun is automatically held back. Typically you press a Button and the Empty Magazine falls out, at the same time you are doing that you are have hold of the full Magazine and already have it on the way to the Gun.
You slide it in and depress the Slide Release and a new Cartridge goes into the chamber and the Gun is now loaded.
And, you don't even need to see the Mgazine or Gun to to do that meaning a Person is watching the Target.

In CA they only allow 10 Shots pere Magazine. So in the case of the the recent Murders if He had on ly one gun that would have been 2 Magazine changes.

Changing a Rifle Magazine is slightly slower because the Rifle and Magazine are more cumbersom.

Not an expert but I been in the Army I have some experience with a real Assult Rifle and Automatic Piston.
My Father bought Me My First Rifle when I was about 9 years old and I have done a lot of reading/studying of civilian and Military Firearms as well as Historical stuff.

In the end I can't think of any way this sort of Murder could have been totally prevented because it was evidently planned.
I have mentioned better School Security as a deterent but someone could climb over or cut through most Fences that Schools have and enter the School that way.

Having armed Security Guards might have helped, but there is a risk that one of the Guards might fip out and become a Murder (the same with armed Teachers).
Also if someone knows there is Security Guard they would be the first ones shot.

Of all the things that run through My mind on the best deterrent I can think of is increased School Security that prevents anyone from bringing any Weapons or other illegal stuff into the School.

I understand that you don't understand People who like Guns and participate in Gun Sports label you as an Antigun Nut.
Why have you decided that someone like Myself are others are Gun Nuts; implying insanity.

I can speculate that the so called Gun Nuts can spout all sorts of figures and technical data is that they have a complete interest in their Sport.
Not unlike a lot of Sports Fans do in Base Ball or even Mercedes.
I bet there is a bunch of Gun Lover type Forums that are similar in content to this one with the exception of the Subject Matter.

Old Argument does not equal Invalid Argument.

As far as the "Drug Culture" (no news Media) goes I know more about that then I want to. 2 of the People who where My past Friends (Weed and Pill users when I met them) moved on to Heroin.

The Man Mugged an Old Lady for Drug Money and went to Jail for that. Likely for the rest of his Life as He had previous convictions.
The Women became a Prostitute and also went to Jail for that and later was back on the Streets.

One of My X Girl Friends died of a Heart Attack duing here use of Amphetamines.

One of Her Girl Friends that I knew also died in a Similar Fashion.

This is over 35 years ago but I Myself was one the armed Persons at the buying of some Weed. I was young and Dumb for doing that but that was the first and last time and I walked away from the whole mess.

From what you said I gather that you don't believe illegal drug use of any sort causes any Violence, crime or has altered society in any way. Drug users are just a bunch of "Mellow Folks".

It is those evil law abiding Gun Owners with their detailed technical knowledge that are the threat.

You will know if you are part of the "Drug Culture" pretty much the same way you would know if you are part of a "Base Ball" culture. Almost all of your Friends will be Drug uses, they spend a lot of their time doing things to aquire or use Drugs.
You might here a comment like I did when I was in the Army where one of the Guys noticed and commented that that that when the talked about having fun the sentance saterted off with "I was all F***** Up and******".
Ya the only time they had fun what when the were High.
If you can accept the Drug Stuff from above just try to think of the Law Abiding "Gun Nuts" as a Mellow Bunch of Guys and Gals getting high when the Shoot their Guns.

[QUOTE=Dubyagee;3072162]The definition of crazy usually is arrived after an action. There are no known defenses of "crazy" except 1984 style monitoring which introduces a bevy of flaws and right restrictions. That only leaves defense from possible actions by crazy people. That in itself is flawed due to the altering of environments and inherent risks involved.

Point is this, since the people that wish harm are hard to pinpoint then all that is left is defense. Removing access to weapons is incorrect and is penalizing the lawful owners of such. That leaves hardening security and education of the threat.

This is nothing more then a brick by brick attempt of disassembling the second amendment then the safety of any school.[/QUOTE]


Yes, the fight to maintain freedom is a continuing thing.

This is not any sort of argument or attempt and persuasion.

But, for Myself if My Children were shot or someone kicked the door in and shot and killed My immediate Family or other Family Relatives I would not be blaming the Weapons used.

I would not be wanting to put the Weapons on trial.
All My anger and hatred would be focused on the Person/s who committed the Crime.

I personally believe that the above thoughs are rather natural under the stated cirustances.
But,from reading some of the Comments I have come away believing that those sort of thoughts are considered aberrant by some people.

I think you are crazy and should be taken of the street. ;)

I entirely understand people who like guns, because I am one of them.
What I don't understand is people claiming that they are going to use POS weapons like the bushmaster AR-15 copycat for hunting.... Get real.

I have not intentionally labeled you a gun nut. I do believe that you are clinging to outdated, no longer relevant arguments in presenting your side of the debate.

As for the drug culture, you seem to be lumping casual weed smokers in with speed freaks, junkies and pill heads. That's why I mentioned that our definitions are not the same. I do not consider weed a drug.
Certainly with it's years as an illegal substance, it has been trafficked by real criminals (sounds like you were one of those, as was I, although I never carried any weapons in my efforts of distribution).

Absolutely never claimed this - Illegal drug use causes an enormous amount of crime, and an especially high amount of gun related crime. However, is it the drugs causing the crime, or the fact that they are artificially inflated in price because they are illegal?

Again, never stated anything about legal gun owners being evil in any way.
But their arguments are outdated, narrow minded and often confrontational.
These are not tactics that are going to aid the gun owners in the gun control showdown.

What's a redneck's last words???

Hey Y'all... Watch This!!!:D

Speed Limiters, Too? | Eric Peters Autos

"It is because thoughtless Americans do not discern the commonality – because they have been conditioned to never think in terms of concepts. They have been reduced to a state of bipedal animalism – because they have lost (or never developed) the distinctly human capacity to focus on principles rather than particulars. This, in turn, makes it easy to convince them that a given particular (such as a gun) is “bad” – based on childish arguments that would be washed away in an instant if their brains operated on the conceptual rather than the animal level."

Principles you say? Neigh. That's just tired NRA fluff.

Each victim was shot multiple times.


Well, the more fringe players on the gun rights side claim that gun free school zones are worse than nothing....:rolleyes:
And your argument is getting back to one of the root issues.
Anti-gun people do not want to have their rights and freedoms compromised in order for gun people to keep the status quo.
Both sides seem hell bent of getting ALL of the concessions from the other side, rather than each side yielding to some degree.