Gun Banning perspective... - Page 7 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

cjlipps · #91 12-23-2012, 09:18 PM

Let's do exactly the opposite of what the politicos think feels good:
1 FREE gun and a box of ammo per month (Let's say a .38 Special revolver) to all American citizens over the age of 21 who have no criminal record and can pass a comprehensive drug test. And if you returned your spent casings along with perforated targets you could get more free ammo.
Yeah, this is unorthodox and yeah it would have it's downside but how would the wackos feel if they were faced with the likelihood that everyone over 21 was armed and proficient with said arms?

Diesel911 · #92 12-23-2012, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjlipps

Let's do exactly the opposite of what the politicos think feels good:
1 FREE gun and a box of ammo per month (Let's say a .38 Special revolver) to all American citizens over the age of 21 who have no criminal record and can pass a comprehensive drug test. And if you returned your spent casings along with perforated targets you could get more free ammo.
Yeah, this is unorthodox and yeah it would have it's downside but how would the wackos feel if they were faced with the likelihood that everyone over 21 was armed and proficient with said arms?

Not exactly to the point but before WWII got into full swing the Germans ask the Swiss what they would do if the Germans invaded Switzerland with 2x the number of Troops. The Swiss told them that each Swiss Soldier would just have to fire Twice.

After that Switzerland was never threatened with invasion by Germany.

So there can be a deterrent effect to be had from being armed.

In Arizona you are allowed to carry a Hand Gun as long as it is not concealed. The Anti Gun Factions prediction was there would be a Blood Bath.
Nothing of the kind happend; and of course no admission from the Antis saying they were wrong.

Diesel911 · #93 12-23-2012, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

Exactly.

My opinion there is to rush into decision because "something has to be done" and there is a highly vocal portion of the Public (I assume potential Voters) that simply don't like or understand People who own Guns and are determined cause the Law abiding Gun owners all the trouble they possibly can.
They certainly don't focus on School Security.

In this case it plays into the hands of the Politicos (who have no coherent idea of what to do) giving them an easy way to appeasement and making it appears like they actually did something instead of coming up with a real solution.

If it does not work the Politicos scapegoat and say they did what the Public wanted.

In the mean time no effort and recourses are being spent on finding a real solution or solutions. The tragic part is that it does not only apply to Gun Issues.

Where is the National cry for Psychologists, Criminologists, Security Experts; Law Enforcement, Scientists or who ever else might be needed to be gathered together to form some sort of investigating board to find real solutions?
I am speculating that there is not going to be one (or even an effort made) because while some groups have their own ajenda they want pushed no one really cares enough to look for real world solutions.

Benz Dr. · #94 12-23-2012, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

Not exactly to the point but before WWII got into full swing the Germans ask the Swiss what they would do if the Germans invaded Switzerland with 2x the number of Troops. The Swiss told them that each Swiss Soldier would just have to fire Twice.

After that Switzerland was never threatened with invasion by Germany.

So there can be a deterrent effect to be had from being armed.

In Arizona you are allowed to carry a Hand Gun as long as it is not concealed. The Anti Gun Factions prediction was there would be a Blood Bath.
Nothing of the kind happend; and of course no admission from the Antis saying they were wrong.

Good point. After all, where would they have been able to hide all of the gold they pryed from all the dead concentration camp vitcims if it wasn't for Swiss bankers.

cmbdiesel · #95 12-23-2012, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

This goes back to the ridicule instead of argument that the other member posted. Please notice that in My arguments I don't riducual Folks.

Sorry if you misinterpreted my comments, I was not trying to ridicule you, but the worn out arguments you were using. And they are worn out, continuing to present them will not assist our desire to see reasonable restrictions placed on our weapons, but will hasten the demand for unreasonable restrictions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

Facts:
I was born in1952. Growing up some People owned Guns and some did not.
Up until the President JFK assassination you could order Hand Guns and other Guns by Mail.

On the Back Page of every Gun Magazine were Mail Order Guns.
Yet, there was little violence of any kind period.
As the 1960s progressed there was increasing Violence and Crime.
In My opinion after the "Drug Culture" took a good hold the Violence started to rise faster.

Things like serial killing and Child Molestation also shot up.
Part of the above is due to what I call an increase in Criminal Rights; meaning that the Law has a difficult time prosecuting Criminals due to the stricter interpretation of the Laws of evidence.

I would ask for some sort of suppor for this claim. I believe you have an axe to grind regarding drugs (pretty sure you and I have different opinions on what constitutes a drug) What exactly is 'drug culture'? How does it relate to violence? What I think you have experienced is a jump in televised news... Suddenly, everything is in your living room in 1080p clarity.
Stricter laws of evidence.... well, if a bunch of DB's who were running the system hadn't f**ked a lot of people, we wouldn't be in a position of doubting the DA when they bring forth a case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

Simply put the violence is being caused because the gernearl population is simply more immoral and selfserving than then people in the past were and there is too many of them for the Law to police.

In fact much of the population sees any sort of representation of the Law; even a STOP sign as an affront to their personal freedom.

Again, I believe you are seeing what the tv editors want you to see.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

The tragic and irresponsible use of Guns is just a tiny part of the above.
Now; I snap My Fingers and magically all of the Guns in the US owned by non-criminals other than authorized government agencies disappear from the Face of the Earth.
After that what has changed; except that the non-criminals are more defenseless than they were before. Who does that help?

My comment on the Switzerland who's Soldiers bring their real Assault Rifles and Ammo Home with them was meant to show that they can do that without rampent Gun Violence because they have a better society then We do here.

Sandy Hook doesn't happen, because ther are no guns for the sick kid to steal and use.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

You are not going to fix Our Society by trying to regulate or ban Guns.

Absolutely agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

As an example I was trying to make goes sort of like this.
Because somepeople think that you cannot use a so called Assult Weapon for Hunting or for Home defence; what they just has to believe must be true.
(So called Assault Weapons are supposed to be able to kill legions of innocent People and Enemy Soldiers that might be wearing Body Aromor but are not able to effectively be used to Kill a Deer; is considered a sound argument; if you believe what you want to.)

People belive what the want and ignore or don't care about the truth. And, that is OK till they try to make it the Law.

Given the fact that gun nuts routinely spout performance, speed and power stats of their favorite weapons, I cannot accept that they would tolerate the diminished capability which assault style weapons offer as hunting weapons, if that were truly their intended purpose. Any true hunter would be more interested in the accuracy of the gun more than the pistol grip rambo-esque BS which is about all these POS guns offer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

I have this on My Bullitun Board:
Title;Thinking Problems Through
Understand the cause of the Problem
Understand the Goal
Plan a Sloution
Act on the Plan
Do the Results match your Goal

A ban on Guns fails in the "Understand the Problem" (People who want to kill other Pople) area and the "Do the Results Match your Goal" areas (after the Gun ban the People who want to Kill are still there).

Well, I believe your approach fails in steps 1 and 2, after failing the title...
But, to be honest, I think both sides fail item number 1
Certainly neither side has a grip on 2.....
3 is certainly out of reach of the partisan ***** mentality of our elected officials...
Pretty sure 4 and 5 are entirely academic at this point...

BTW, thanks for all the great posts in DD...

cmbdiesel · #96 12-23-2012, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

Clearly our society is in trouble.

One of the things that I don't like about statistical stuff-Total firearm-related death rate- is that this sort of statistic includes Firearms accidents, People that Citizens shot to defend themselves from a Crime, Criminals that the Police shot and suicides where the Person killed theselves with a Gun.

I would think that Murders committed with Fire Arms would be a better statistic and also a comparison of Firearm Murders to Murders committed by other means.

I am going to speculate that the US would score high in both Murders committed by other means and Fire Arm Murders.

Most pro-gun folks don't like the statistical stuff. It highlights the dangers of firearms and weakens their case.

cmbdiesel · #97 12-23-2012, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmaysob

......

Dude, if you want us to take you seriously, learn how to work the syntax of this forum. Putting your response inside of a quote is not only difficult to read, but also a violation of TOU. You are not allowed to alter other peoples quotes.

Aren't you a technician?

And here we are.... right back to "who's defending MY right to own a firearm".... If what you present is the best we have to offer, may as well turn them all in now.

cmbdiesel · #98 12-23-2012, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjlipps

I didn't read all the posts so please forgive if this is redundant or trite, but where do the wackos go to shoot innocents in large numbers? They go to places where they know nobody will be armed.
Why are we talking about the possibility of increasing the number of places where nobody will be armed?

Excuse me while I 5hit out a prepackaged response which was prepared for me by my handlers....

Next time, read.
I would venture that maybe your house might be an excellent place to add to the number of places where nobody is armed....

One should be forced to prove they have a brain before they should be entrusted with a firearm.

Benz Dr. · #99 12-23-2012, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

There is regulations on some of the above items; at least I CA.

Unfortunately the definition of "Feeling Safer" is left to be defined by Who?

The environment I feel safe in is going to be different from the one someone else feels safe in.

If I managed go get the Law to make an environment I feel safe in that would impose on someone else’s feeling of safety.

For Myself I did not hear our President come out and say that our Country is going to increase Security in Schools. Instead the President has gone for an attempt at the less effective Feel Good aspect of Gun Control.
Diverting resources away from something that actually might help.

Where is the Public outcry to have an X-ray Machine and a Magnetic Walk Through like at the Air Port in every School in the Country?

OK, so X-ray machines would make some people feel that things are safer. I take it you would be one of these people? Your country has a problem and that's your solution, which for the present term may be effective - maybe not. Personally, I think it has some merrit but who is going to pay for it? And isn't putting responsibility on the govenment and not the individual to be responsible for their own actions?

Every time that something like this happens it always seems to be a nut case who did it, and indeed, one would have to be deranged to do such a thing. However, it's not always nut cases that are doing all of the killing. I'm pretty sure that there are some very sane people out there who would pull the trigger in a moment of panic, fear, anger, hatred, or in a moment of careless stupidity. No, their not shooting up play grounds but they might be shooting up you or someone you know. You don't see that as just a little bit of a problem?

See? Americans value libery more than safety. They always have and many always will. Your founding fathers put into motion the one thing that could slowly destroy your country from the inside out. Forget about outside terrorists, you already have them hiding in plain sight just down the street. And the enemy just might be you.........

cmbdiesel · #**100** 12-23-2012, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjlipps

Let's do exactly the opposite of what the politicos think feels good:
1 FREE gun and a box of ammo per month (Let's say a .38 Special revolver) to all American citizens over the age of 21 who have no criminal record and can pass a comprehensive drug test. And if you returned your spent casings along with perforated targets you could get more free ammo.
Yeah, this is unorthodox and yeah it would have it's downside but how would the wackos feel if they were faced with the likelihood that everyone over 21 was armed and proficient with said arms?

I got an idea...how about we all agree that some people are just idiots who spout complete nonsense??

Ozarkdude · #**101** 12-24-2012, 12:02 AM

I thought extremism and banning things ended with Hitler. Almost every country that has banned guns has turned on its own people.

Why dont you people face facts that its crazy people who need to be taken off the street, and leave normal law abiding people alone.

kmaysob · #**102** 12-24-2012, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmbdiesel

Dude, if you want us to take you seriously, learn how to work the syntax of this forum. Putting your response inside of a quote is not only difficult to read, but also a violation of TOU. You are not allowed to alter other peoples quotes.

Aren't you a technician?

And here we are.... right back to "who's defending MY right to own a firearm".... If what you present is the best we have to offer, may as well turn them all in now.

actually, i found it may be easier for some to figure out what im talking about. hence the "bold", but i would expect you to try to pick a person apart about something totally unrelated to the thread.

the more i think on the whole non lethal idea, id be willing to have that in my schools than nothing at all.

all im trying to do is educate fools like yourself. you see no logical way for something to work , so thereby, it must not be possible.

went back and edited it just for you sweetheart!

cmbdiesel · #**103** 12-24-2012, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

Where is the National cry for Psychologists, Criminologists, Security Experts; Law Enforcement, Scientists or who ever else might be needed to be gathered together to form some sort of investigating board to find real solutions?
I am speculating that there is not going to be one (or even an effort made) because while some groups have their own ajenda they want pushed no one really cares enough to look for real world solutions.

Where is the money for national Psychologists, Criminologists, Security Experts; Law Enforcement, Scientists or who ever ....????

We can't even provide basic health care for our people without a bitter partisan 5hitstorm, how in the F**K are you going to fund these studies, the resulting decisions, and the cost of implementation?

Amazing how people will fight against anything related to assisting the general population regarding health care, are now all eager to assist the mentally incompetent when threatened with restrictions on their toys.... (guns)

cmbdiesel · #**104** 12-24-2012, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozarkdude

I thought extremism and banning things ended with Hitler. Almost every country that has banned guns has turned on its own people.

Why dont you people face facts that its crazy people who need to be taken off the street, and leave normal law abiding people alone.

Please provide a tiny scrap of evidence to support these nonsensical allegations.

Shot in the face by someone who has all your guns, and is heading out to massacre kindergarten kids..... that's your idea of a normal law abiding person??

If she weren't dead, I would want her behind bars.

cmbdiesel · #**105** 12-24-2012, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmaysob

actually, i found it may be easier for some to figure out what im talking about. hence the "bold", but i would expect you to try to pick a person apart about something totally unrelated to the thread.

the more i think on the whole non lethal idea, id be willing to have that in my schools than nothing at all.

all im trying to do is educate fools like yourself. you see no logical way for something to work , so thereby, it must not be possible.

Call me fool all you wish.... not going to change the reality that I am one of the people who is working at keeping our right to bear arms conversant with the current state of our society. Neanderthal thugs who cannot see that the world has moved on... you are our worst enemy, I am here to try and convince you to either listen, learn and engage... or STFU.