For the last 20 or so years, the gun shows I go to has a booth before the entrance to the show where weapons are checked for ammo, then cable tied in such a fashion that it wont fire. The weapons on display at the shows are also cable tied in the same way. If there's an accidental discharge, it's generally not inside the building, it's in the parking lot or at the booth near the entrance.

Dealers will generally cut the cable tie for you so you can check the action and such, but always put one back on after you are done inspecting the possible purchase.

My last show, I was made to drop my mag, prove the chamber was clear, and my personal carry weapon was tied back. I dropped my mag in my pocket, re-holstered my weapon, and enjoyed the show. Although I hate feeling naked like that, I saw the number of off duty officers moonlighting as security for the show, and felt a little more at ease.

A gun show is the last place I would expect a shooting to happen, accidental or otherwise. I'm sure there's statistics out there to prove it...just as many as the studies to disprove it. I won't bother locating any, because the point is moot.

Anyway, back to topic of scopes. What are you scoping, Larry? It's easy to drop as much on optics as the rifle is worth. Today's "cheap" optics are light years ahead of where they were 40 years ago. I'd stay away from lighted reticles right now, as the price is higher than it should be due to demand...everybody is wanting to outfit their new purchases, and there are plenty of them.

__________________
1987 560SL
85,000 miles

As I said, the cheapest possible scope now is far beyond what I put on there over 30 years ago. I am hoping that upgrading the scope will at least partially compensate for the downgrade of my vision over that period.

I thought about buying something in a varmint caliber, but elected to stay with my .308. I still have my notebook with the hollow point boat tail recipe that has worked so well in that rifle over the years. .308 is not the perfect round for the task at hand, but there are certainly worse choices. I don't think I will be able to make the long shots that I used to be capable of anyway.

I got about halfway through this 1200 table show and very few optics vendors. The first guy instead of trying to talk me into buying one of the many he had on hand, he very honestly recommended that I go buy A Leopould LX R. He said it would be very well suited for my purposes. I was impressed with his honesty for doing the right thing instead of setting the hook on me.

I kept going and found a manufacturer that showed me some impressive scopes that were a brand I never heard of and it was going to take about $300 to buy one from him to experiment with. At that point I had been carrying a rifle that belonged to my brother that he wanted me to sell for him. I was tired of carrying it, so I went back to the highest bidder and got my money.

I then picked up the walk from where I had been, now knowing how to spot an IR scope at first glance. I saw one in a case that was higher power than I wanted but it was marked $150. I looked it over and it was in good shape albeit with a weak battery. I lifted the battery to make sure there was no corrosion and told the guy I'd give him a hundred bucks for it. He hesitated so i thanked him and started to walk off and he said okay. It is some off brand 4 to 12, adjustable objective, and is a one inch tube so I thought I might be able to use my existing rings.

I went a few more aisle and found optics vendors galore, wouldn't you know it? I asked a question about a night scope and got the rundown. In the course of the conversation I told him that I was gong to try what I had bought and then maybe catch up with him at a later show. He saw the price sticker on my scope and politely said I hope you didn't pay that for it. I told him that I had only paid a hundred. He showed me some of his cheaper scopes that were newer technology with German glass. They were quite impressive, and one of them even less than what I had paid.

I was impressed with the guy and got his card. If I find it necessary I will have to decide whether to upgrade the illuminated reticle or buy the night scope.

I got home and did some measuring and the large OD of the scope will prevent me from using my existing rings. They are too short. They are the old Leopould style so I will have to get taller ones. One thing leads to another but I will go ahead and get the rings and mount the scope to experiment with. Given the expense of ammo to zero it with, I am almost considering buying one of his cheap scopes and 30MM rings, but what the heck this way I get to enjoy some more shooting and I have enough components on hand to press out about 200 rounds.

Basically between the reading I did before the show and what I learned at the show I know that with some shooting and maybe some more money spent I can get where I need to be.

Like you say, the cheap stuff today is way better than what is now on the rifle. BTW the rifle is a Remington 742 that I've had for almost 40 years. I have been around some other automatics, but this particular rifle can shoot a group almost as tight as bolt. At least it could when a younger Larry was shooting it.

__________________
2001 SLK 320 six speed manual
2014 Porsche Cayenne six speed manual

Annoy a Liberal, Read the Constitution

Your comment that all the accidental shootings at gun shows happen in the parking lot does not make me feel any safer at a gun show!

I stopped deer hunting because of all the doofus's in the woods blowing stray bullets everywhere and I wouldn't expect the gun shows to have a much higher level of patrons.

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

You probably have a higher chance of being shot at the range than you do at a gun show...Probably an even higher chance of dying in a car wreck on the way to the show instead of being shot at a show.

Grab a flashlight, a helmet, a bullet proof vest, and a book and hide in the closet in your basement...you may be safer there.

__________________
1987 560SL
85,000 miles

Yeah, it's really difficult to think of anywhere that someone could go and be safe. I consider the Dallas area streets and highways much more dangerous than our local skeet and trap club.

__________________
2001 SLK 320 six speed manual
2014 Porsche Cayenne six speed manual

Annoy a Liberal, Read the Constitution

RE: Gun shows and personal safety.......

It honestly did not cross my mind before posting yesterday here, that it would be an argument one way or the other when I made my previous post yesterday.

To me, it wouldn't take a very high degree of reasoning OR common sense to realize that gun shows and their associated parking areas are a dangerous place to be because of the inordinate high degree/possibility of taking a round from accidental/careless discharge.

My alma mater military academy has an annual skeet shoot competition. I wouldn't be within a mile of that range if a competition were in progress. Am I too cautious? I don't think so. Just using my head.

Guns don't scare me - guns in other ppls' hands is what scares me........

__________________
'06 E320 CDI
'17 Corvette Stingray Vert

So do they not have any rules and safety procedures at that tournament? The club I've shot at for about fifteen years has been in heavy operation since 1960 with no incidents whatever.

__________________
2001 SLK 320 six speed manual
2014 Porsche Cayenne six speed manual

Annoy a Liberal, Read the Constitution

Larry, I don't know. I'm not a shooter. I do know the alum organizer from Virginia, and I could contact him to perhaps allay my surface fears, however, being present at a skeet shoot or gun range, BOTH with live, active ammo being shot off, has inherent dangers - all unpredictable, unfortunately.

Here's a profile photo shot from the online alumni news - you would know more about what you see at work here, than me.

Attached Thumbnails

 

A second pic:

Attached Thumbnails

 

First of all, I'm curious about how someone goes to military school without being a shooter.

Secondly, I realize you did not take those pictures, so I'm being critical of someone elses photography rather than yours. They are fuzzy at best to start with and they would not enlarge enough for me to see hardly anything. From what I could tell, I could not see any safety hazards of any sort in the pictures.

On a skeet or trap range the rules and procedures are quite simple and quite safe. Basically no gun can be loaded until a person is at a station preparing to fire. Their shotgun is pointed down and downrange while loading. While NOT at the station in a firing position, the action must be open for everyone to see.

This is one of the many reasons that most sport shooters shoot a double. They can easily carry it with the action broken for all to see that it is empty and incapable of firing.

__________________
2001 SLK 320 six speed manual
2014 Porsche Cayenne six speed manual

Annoy a Liberal, Read the Constitution

It's been a long time Larry, (late '60s) I handled and marched with an M1 weekly in Sunday parade, or Wednesday afternoon drill, picking one up from the armory, breaking it down to clean it and reassembling it in my room, but I have no recollection of spending any time at the indoor gun range. So, I can't answer your question, but there is an active indoors rifle gun range in existence there at this time, in fact a classmate of mine from my era donated almost $4K in the past few months to remodel the gun range at the school. I'm thinking it was totally optional to go shoot at the time I attended.

I've never been on a outdoors gun range, so I'm no help for you. But in one picture, there's at least two barrels in view - the person shooting I take it, and another barrel beyond, with the barrel at 45 degrees down. Spectators behind are rather close in each sidewalk behind each shooter, with plastic tubs in front of the shooter's positions, across the width of a 90 degree sidewalk.

That's nice information to know.

Gun Range pics from W.M.A:

Attached Thumbnails

   

It's easy to understand why you gave up hunting in that environment. I gave it up years ago just because. I have a few hanging on the wall that I'm proud of so it was time to do something else.

It's different here though because we hunt on private land. I've had very little problem with trespassers and I know what is happening on this and surrounding places.

The reason I chimed in on your post though was to tell about something I read years ago, I think in "The Deer Hunters Bible". Wherever it was, they told a true story about a city boy that was hunting on public land where they had to come out through a checkpoint. When the city boy stopped and was asked if he had success he excitedly and proudly proclaimed that he had bagged a really nice deer. The warden asked to see it and the city boy, with a huge smile on his face threw back a canvas in his trailer and underneath was a mule.

__________________
2001 SLK 320 six speed manual
2014 Porsche Cayenne six speed manual

Annoy a Liberal, Read the Constitution

I only hunt on private land. Can't deal with the asshats in places open to the public.
When I lived on a couple hundred acres out west, I walked the property with my rifle or shotgun at least once a week.
Here in CT I go to a few different spots with landowner permission, as I don't live on anything big enough to hunt on.
(although if the deer come in the yard after the fruit trees, they may get a broadhead...)
Hunting that way is so much better. Take a good shot at the right animal when the opportunity is best.
The public hunting where people have to try and shoot something in a four or five day period... that puts undue pressure on people who entered the woods with an itchy finger...
Can you imagine what it must be like out there on the last day of season?

__________________
On some nights I still believe that a car with the fuel gauge on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. - HST

1983 300SD - 305000
1984 Toyota Landcruiser - 190000
1994 GMC Jimmy - 203000

https://media.giphy.com/media/X3nnss8PAj5aU/giphy.gif

Perhaps gun shows should take a page from ren fairs and re-enactments, and require that guns be "peace bonded" (zip tie or string placed around trigger or mechanism so as to make the weapon unshootable) outside of designated firing areas. Anyone breaking the rule gets expelled from the show and/or the parking lot.