MB does make minivans, the Vaneo, the Vito F and the V-Klasse. They are just not exported to the U.S. market.

One should never put too much weight on those reports. Over the years, I have watched these yoo-yoos film critics on TV. They always have something bad to say just about any movie. Well, I saw plenty of "bad" movies over the years and enjoyed thoroughly on most of them.

The so called analysts are paid to say something.....good, bad, or indifferent. It is easier to say something bad because bad is always obvious. It takes longer to explain why something is good, and then you still have to compare to something that is bad.

I just buy what I like and if it turns out bad, get rid of it and move on to something else. Life is too short to be picky. My 2 cents.

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95 R129
04 Infiniti G35.5 BS
10 X204

Part of the answer is, not so much that MB has declined (although a good argument can be made it has) but that the rest have improved. Remember, it's "much worse than AVERAGE", average has improved. One or two visits to the dealer can throw things off.

As far as quality, I saw a copy of JD Powers survey from about 10-12 years ago. The whole MB line was in the top 10! Today, I don't think there is but one.

I think the German mentality is to deny there is a problem. Audi did it in the mid 80's with the unintended acceleration fiasco. They just kept saying there is nothing wrong. BMW refused to recognize their A/C systems were sub-standard. A big dealer in Texas invited BMW engineers to drive around Texas in July! The first day, the engineers didn't seem to think there was a problem. Before the second day, the dealer disconnected the power windows, then they seemed to understand.

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Mr. BILL

91 300E 120K
90 300SE 275K (sold)
92 BMW 525iM 120K
90 BMW 525iA 175K
85 300D 175K (sold)
84 300SD 245K (sold)

"I think the German mentality is to deny there is a problem"

in the words of Basil Fawlty "Just dont mention the war!"

buying new mb that captures the old mb spirit means selecting the right model, like an e class diesel or something; their diversification and high production harms the overall mb line, but there are still jewels.

MB makes a minivan but it's not offered in North America. There was a thread on this in the featured cars forum.

http://www.mercedes.com/d/rv/vitof/default.htm

http://www.mercedes.com/d/rv/marcopolo/default.htm

Sixto
91 300SE
81 300SD

I have a Samurai. Aside from being severely underpowered, I don't know of any 4x4 aside from a Mog or a diesel G-wagen that can hold a candle to it in reliability. In this vehicles 14 year lifespan so far, it has had pretty much routine maintenance. What few things have required attention have been dirt cheap to replace. So far those things include a broken bolt in the shift tower, ($1), a bad "O" ring between the distributor and head (~$6), and a valve cover gasket. ($5). Oh yeah, it needed a muffler last year, but I cannot justify that as a repair. This thing is going to be one of my "lifetime" cars. I have a 1.9L VW turbodiesel engine awaiting installation. I need to rework the driveline to get the RPM's down to levels more suitable to diesel engines.

Consumer Retorts has issues with SUV's in general. They don't like them, and their bias shows up in every SUV article. IMO, they aren't worth lining a birdcage with.

I still want to see statistics on what problems were reported to give the scores.

IF most of them are things like creaky plastic, I don't consider that a reliability issue.

Either way, I'll say it again as I have before. Show me the precentage of which problems were actually reliability issues and not just consumer complaints about fit and finish things...

Any vehicle can have a manufacturing defect, I.E. Bad piece of leather, excess plastic, things like that. but do these things make the car less reliable? I don't think so...

For reliability, show me mechanical failures and repairs, and percentages of each per model and per model year for each vehicle.

You can't expect every part to come off the assembly line in perfect condition, some of them will have slight flaws. thats just the nature of the beast.

Nothing is perfect, so I say go out and buy the car that appeals to you most, because no matter what, that is what will make you happy.

Would you rather buy a car based on economy, reliability, and price if it looks like a piece of crap, or would you rather sacrifice a little of everything, for something that looks like a million bucks...

Hmmmm My choice is looks, because I'd rather drive something that appeals to me, than one that appeals to my wallet more. I don't let money dictate the car I buy, and I don't let others dictate the car I buy. I buy a car because it looks the way it does.

If you can stand back and look at your car and just smile because it is that beautiful to you, then thats what counts in my book.

Alon

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'92 300CE - Sold
2004 C240 - 744 - C7 Wheels - Android Radio
2002 C320 - 816 - Sport Wagon

Excellent points, Alon, and the same philosophy I live by. However, Consumer Reports has its benefits when it comes time to pick a microwave oven or the wife's car.

Sixto
91 300SE
81 300SD

Sorry about my narrow scope of view. Sometimes I don't stop to think about the fact that this board is not limited to my own little piece of space.

Sixto, you hit the nail on the head about Consumers usefulness. It has helped us to make decisions on such mundane things as vacuum cleaners, microwaves, ovens and refrigerators.

Steve

Here are some photos showing the 94-97 C-Class door and the 98-00 C-Class door, with leather.

Firstly, we have the 94-97 C-class door. Notice how my door is almost fully covered in leather:

Attached Images

94-97.c.door.jpg (12.5 KB, 146 views)

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2006 E350 w/ 155k miles (Daily Driver)

Previous:
1993 300E 3.2L Sedan w/ close to about 300k miles
2003 E500 Brilliant Silver (Had 217k miles when totalled!)
1989 300E with 289,000 miles (had for <1 yr while in HI)
03 CLK 500 cabrio (Mom's)
2006 C230k (Dad's)
1999 S420 (Mom's/Dad's)
2000 C230k Sport sedans
2001 CLK320 Cabrio (Mom's)
1995 C280 My First Mercedes-Benz... (155k miles. EXCEPTIONAL AUTOMOBILE. Was Very hard to let go of!)

And here is a 99 C-Class.... same as 98-00 C-Class front car doors, with leather of course...

Now that I'm looking, it looks like less wood too?

Attached Images

98-00.c.door.jpg (10.8 KB, 142 views)

__________________
2006 E350 w/ 155k miles (Daily Driver)

Previous:
1993 300E 3.2L Sedan w/ close to about 300k miles
2003 E500 Brilliant Silver (Had 217k miles when totalled!)
1989 300E with 289,000 miles (had for <1 yr while in HI)
03 CLK 500 cabrio (Mom's)
2006 C230k (Dad's)
1999 S420 (Mom's/Dad's)
2000 C230k Sport sedans
2001 CLK320 Cabrio (Mom's)
1995 C280 My First Mercedes-Benz... (155k miles. EXCEPTIONAL AUTOMOBILE. Was Very hard to let go of!)

Obvious call on the leather, tough call on the wood.

Sixto
91 300SE
86 300SDL (due soon)
81 300SD (for sale cheap)

well, forsake not, the oil war is not about price control but is about who has the last drop. Then if you happen to be old enough not to care all that much! and lucky or smart enough to have a brace of 126's, they should carry you through with aplomb......
William Rogers........

David,

I don't mean to be a naysayer, but it looks as if an airbag is included in the 99 C-class door. One would have to ask if the tradeoff of less leather and wood for an airbag is worth it in the long run, especially if the MSRP of the newer car didn't go up much.

Steve