And my second point was that non-Puritanically-infested places revolted successfully (or gradually drifted out of union over time) just the same. Are Canada, Australia, or New Zealand really worse off than we are?

Have you ever been to Switzerland? A beautiful and wonderful place. I hope you have a really serious amount of money if you plan on buying property there. They actually have 100 year mortgages there due to the ultra high property costs. In many places, the community has to vote in your favor, before you are allowed to move in.

I am not trying to chase you out, but if you were to leave the US because of your personal beliefs, it would be an impressive backing up of your personal ideals. I'm not sure that Switzerland would be the panacea that you might think.

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2001 SLK 320 six speed manual
2014 Porsche Cayenne six speed manual

Annoy a Liberal, Read the Constitution

As I understand it, all three of those countries are today quite liberal and socialistic. Even more so than the US. You might be happier in one of those countries.

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2001 SLK 320 six speed manual
2014 Porsche Cayenne six speed manual

Annoy a Liberal, Read the Constitution

No plans to buy property abroad: I plan to keep buying in the US so long as I can yield an 8-10% return before mortgage less about 1% for management costs, and renting abroad on the income from the US properties. I'll pay some taxes in the US, but give nothing back other than that. Other option is to start buying in Berlin, where the economy is doing decently well and property is still relatively cheap.

Assuming nothing changes drastically, Swiss quotas on immigrants from the EU-17 countries will expire in 2014 per treaty, making me easily eligible for a 5 yr work/residence permit.

Yeah buster, love it or leave it . . . can't be part of the collective if you're going to complain about it.

He can complain all he wants and stay, or he can leave. It's his choice. If you will pay attention to what I wrote, I am saying that I admire someone taking such a serious step to stay true to their own principles.

Of course, if you paid attention to what I wrote it would deny of you of the opportunity to try to piss me off with the twisting of my words. I wouldn't want to deny you that opportunity.

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2001 SLK 320 six speed manual
2014 Porsche Cayenne six speed manual

Annoy a Liberal, Read the Constitution

Thank you, I appreciate it.

Berlin? You must feel much more comfortable in a big city than do I. The European cities are just not my thing, but I realize that I am in the extreme minority as a lover of country living in these times.

I have never been to Berlin, but I have been to many other large European cities, and I fully expect that Berlin is very similar. When I was in the Army in Germany I wanted to visit Berlin, but was not allowed due to my high security clearance level. When business traveling Europe in the early 2000's, I never got the opportunity to go to Berlin, or any of the old East Germany. So much time has gone by now since the wall came down, I expect it would not be as interesting to see without the contrast that was there at one time.

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2001 SLK 320 six speed manual
2014 Porsche Cayenne six speed manual

Annoy a Liberal, Read the Constitution

All three countries are still in the Common Wealth although all are independant of England. The most conservative Province in Canada is Alberta and the most liberal would be Quebec. The other 8 have a mixed bag of different parties and leanings from time to time.

I wouldn't call Canada socialist - tollerant would be a better description. Aside from our national health care system, there's nothing in my mind that stands out as being as more important to most Canadians.

Off hand, I'd say we are doing OK here. Our economy is tied closely with the US because you are our largest trading partner. None of our banks failed, no one lost their house unless they were going to anyway, and our credit rating is rock solid. Low crime rates and a generally peaceful society is so common here that people tend to not even think bout.

We may or may not be a lot of things but one thing we are all sure about is that we are not Americans.

Congratulations!

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2001 SLK 320 six speed manual
2014 Porsche Cayenne six speed manual

Annoy a Liberal, Read the Constitution

I love both (though Berlin is more interesting as an investment than a domicile) -- and if I wanted country living, I could always go visit my numerous cousins in rural southern Poland and northern Slovakia.

Can the cop throw the person out of the place if the owner or manager says they were trespassing like he said? Perhaps that was the case? I know they have signs that say they have the right to refuse to serve anybody they choose so could the owner of the facility ask them to leave via the cops?

Like we should pay attention to the pot calling the kettle black. Seriously?

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

I call BS. You couldn't and wouldn't run because you cannot find anyplace better that will accept you or you'd be there.

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Wanna bet he doesn't have the stones to do it and really do it via going there and renouncing his citizenship?

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

What has work permits got to do with anything? If you are really that pissed with the place, leave and don't come back other than as a visitor.

Would they even want your kind of person there? Either the street thugs will wire your mouth shut or the govt will have you detained in one of their suites under some internal security act.

Why not shoot for 90%? Mr Big Talker? You talk the talk but you can't walk the walk.

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow