Originally Posted by MS Fowler (Post 3183517)

If you view every thru the lens of racism, all you see will be racism. Its like a color filter that allows only light of a certain wavelength to come thru the lens.
Look to other factors---maybe even unpopular ones dating back to the days of Woodrow Wilson ( Our first racist President) Margret Sanger, and the Progressive movement. I know its tough, especially when you came thru school, and you were being so revolutionary and were taught that White racism was the cause of all that was evil. Consider that you might have been mis-educated.
as Bot is fond of reminding us, correlation is NOT causation-- I get up every morning, and THEN the sun rises.

Originally Posted by MS Fowler (Post 3183517)

If you view every thru the lens of racism, all you see will be racism. Its like a color filter that allows only light of a certain wavelength to come thru the lens.
Look to other factors---maybe even unpopular ones dating back to the days of Woodrow Wilson ( Our first racist President) Margret Sanger, and the Progressive movement. I know its tough, especially when you came thru school, and you were being so revolutionary and were taught that White racism was the cause of all that was evil. Consider that you might have been mis-educated.
as Bot is fond of reminding us, correlation is NOT causation-- I get up every morning, and THEN the sun rises.

Originally Posted by Dubyagee (Post 3183463)

Nope. Just pointing out the ridiculousness of it.

Color has nothing to do with it. Hopelessness does. Raised on the streets without a father figure and no one to look up to but idiot thugs. Should be blaming the system at the source, not at incarceration.

Half baked education system, corrupt local governments and failure of policies. It takes a lot more then feel good laws, it takes the direct communities involvement.

Welfare is not the answer. Make it lucrative for legit business to move there without union or government leeching them dry. Let the communities grow from within.

Originally Posted by Botnst (Post 3183501)

... and white families.

Originally Posted by Botnst (Post 3183570)

My suggested would be to err on the side of liberty. In all cases. If the relationship is unproven then don't do it. Whatever "it" might be.

Otherwise we might end-up with a hodge-podge of legislation that few people understand and even fewer people trust.

Originally Posted by MTUpower (Post 3183450)

Same as the civil rights industry does when faced with an event which has nothing to do with civil rights? The prison industry has no place on this conversation about GZ and TM. And you've argued that SYG allows people to NOT get convicted... meaning SYG is contra to the prison industry.

Originally Posted by Dubyagee (Post 3183463)

Nope. Just pointing out the ridiculousness of it.

Color has nothing to do with it. Hopelessness does. Raised on the streets without a father figure and no one to look up to but idiot thugs. Should be blaming the system at the source, not at incarceration.

Half baked education system, corrupt local governments and failure of policies. It takes a lot more then feel good laws, it takes the direct communities involvement.

Welfare is not the answer. Make it lucrative for legit business to move there without union or government leeching them dry. Let the communities grow from within.

Originally Posted by Dubyagee (Post 3183601)

Or they just left.

Originally Posted by cmbdiesel (Post 3183591)

Two different discussions indeed. We can leave the prison industry rants for a new thread.;)
Agreed, SYG is contra to the prison industry lobbyists agenda.

Originally Posted by Honus (Post 3183573)

I can't imagine our government being able to implement such a system. Would your plan include a Supreme Statistical Court to be the final arbiter on whether a causal relationship has been demonstrated?

Originally Posted by Botnst (Post 3183649)

Nah, whatever other 2 branches pass into law, the third branch is obliged to measure against the constitution.

The current Byzantine miasma of laws, rules and regulations confuses rather than guides. It requires citizens hire experts to understand the law. Laws that cannot be clearly understood by the citizens are laws that the citizens do not trust.

When the people no longer trust the gov, the gov loses trust in the people. The people arm themselves against some ill-defined future disaster and the government creates a national police to enforce laws and spy on its citizens.