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davidmash 07-28-2013 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTUpower (Post 3183309)
GZ said little. The expert witnesses and evidence spoke volumes which you ignore. Why?

Because none of it addresses how it started, just how it ended. And to be clear. I agree with the verdict in that the law required it. I have an issue with the law.

Diesel911 07-28-2013 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012 (Post 3183344)
Of course. But please see the info on powder vs. crack cocaine.

Higher crime rates among blacks is a fact by all indications. OTOH, the private prison industry is a bit troubling. Rehab has never been big in our land and my concern is that it's virtually off the table now.

So the Private Prison Industry is making Money off of the situation.

But, the Prison Industry is not going out and causing People to be convicted of Crimes.

Has anyone shown that People in Law Enforcement or the Judicial System are Stockholders in Private Prison Industry that would cause them to have be bias during prosecution?

Honus 07-28-2013 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911 (Post 3183397)
So the Private Prison Industry is making Money off of the situation.

But, the Prison Industry is not going out and causing People to be convicted of Crimes.

Has anyone shown that People in Law Enforcement or the Judicial System are Stockholders in Private Prison Industry that would cause them to have be bias during prosecution?

Not stockholders, but.... Kids for cash scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

panZZer 07-28-2013 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTUpower (Post 3183311)
Did you not know that the local gang banger whose trait is to wear hoodies are known as/are named "Goons"? I thought I posted links to that earlier.

these fine gentelmen?
http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/...initiation.jpg

HuskyMan 07-28-2013 05:09 PM

f
Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911 (Post 3183397)
So the Private Prison Industry is making Money off of the situation.

But, the Prison Industry is not going out and causing People to be convicted of Crimes.

Has anyone shown that People in Law Enforcement or the Judicial System are Stockholders in Private Prison Industry that would cause them to have be bias during prosecution?


it took me all of five minutes to locate the following link concerning at least one congressman who holds financial interest in CCA. Also note the campaign contributions CCA has made to those with the power to influence the renewal of their contracts. Remember THIS: Where there is smoke, there is most certainly fire. The house is burning down.

CCA Industries: Summary | OpenSecrets

HuskyMan 07-28-2013 05:13 PM

Most people seem to think they are "clean" and "innocent of all wrongdoing"; that they wear halos and angel wings and do not use curse words.

This seems to indicate otherwise.......



http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594035229/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1375045936&sr=8-1&keywords=three+felonies+a+day

cmbdiesel 07-28-2013 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911 (Post 3183397)
So the Private Prison Industry is making Money off of the situation.

But, the Prison Industry is not going out and causing People to be convicted of Crimes.

Has anyone shown that People in Law Enforcement or the Judicial System are Stockholders in Private Prison Industry that would cause them to have be bias during prosecution?

The prison industry is most certainly driving legislation with harsher penalties for offenders.

Botnst 07-28-2013 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012 (Post 3183344)
Of course. But please see the info on powder vs. crack cocaine.

Higher crime rates among blacks is a fact by all indications. OTOH, the private prison industry is a bit troubling. Rehab has never been big in our land and my concern is that it's virtually off the table now.

Do private prisons create differential crimes rates?

IOW, I fail to see the connection between the original point and prison management.

Crack cocaine involves a bunch of black people, especially teenagers. Meth gets mostly white kids.

So what?

Honus 07-28-2013 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst (Post 3183426)
Do private prisons create differential crimes rates?

IOW, I fail to see the connection between the original point and prison management.

Crack cocaine involves a bunch of black people, especially teenagers. Meth gets mostly white kids.

So what?

The "so what" is that our drug laws punish black people way out of proportion to the amount of punishment received by white people, even though drug usage among blacks is no higher than among whites. Here's an example of what I mean concerning drug use by the races/ethnicities: White and Hispanic Teens More Likely to Abuse Drugs than African Americans - DukeHealth.org

The "so what" is also that there has been insufficient legislative effort to do anything about it. Most legislation has two sides - industry and its lobbyists and friendly congressman are balanced, for example, by environmental lobbyists and congressmen. In the past, that meant some sort of compromise. When it comes to punishing criminals, there's only one side. A congressman proposes punishing possession of crack with a 10-year sentence, for example. Instead of someone on the other side saying, "How about 5?", you get someone saying "Ten years? Let's make it 20." A third chimes in, "Thirty!" and the bidding war is on. Someone points out there there seems to be a racial disparity in the amount of punishment given and the response is "Make if 40." The result is generations of black families damaged even more than they already were.

Seems like a pretty big "so what" to me.

I stole the bidding war idea from Professor Stuntz and I'm sure I did not do it justice, but hopefully you get the idea.

Botnst 07-28-2013 06:02 PM

Perhaps, if we look at it through the narrow lens of race, without considering other issues that likely contribute.

Be that as it may, I think drug laws in general are wrongheaded and counterproductive. Incarceration does not improve the lives of the convicts or the community into which they will return, with their very own felony conviction to follow them the rest of their lives.

IMO, focusing strictly on the racial aspect is to stumble on a minor point rather than notice the precipice over which we have been, and are currently throwing, hundreds of thousands of people, perhaps millions.

MTUpower 07-28-2013 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panZZer (Post 3183410)
these fine gentelmen?
...

Inflaming the conversation indicates you've lost the point. It's been a civil conversation so far, try to stay on point and not go off the deep end again.

MTUpower 07-28-2013 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmbdiesel (Post 3183421)
The prison industry is most certainly driving legislation with harsher penalties for offenders.

Same as the civil rights industry does when faced with an event which has nothing to do with civil rights? The prison industry has no place on this conversation about GZ and TM. And you've argued that SYG allows people to NOT get convicted... meaning SYG is contra to the prison industry.

Jorn 07-28-2013 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst (Post 3183426)
Do private prisons create differential crimes rates?

IOW, I fail to see the connection between the original point and prison management.

Crack cocaine involves a bunch of black people, especially teenagers. Meth gets mostly white kids.

So what?

The punishment for dealing or smoking crack cocaine is more severe than the punishment for drugs used by mostly white people like cocaine, speed and prescription drugs.

The crack cocaine epidemic was blown out of proportions when TV started to show the crack babies in the eighties, the public got outraged and demanded stiffer punishment and as a result lawmakers set mandatory minimum prison terms for selling crack cocaine. It's one of the reasons blacks are over presented in jails and seen by some as proof of a "racist" court system.

Los Angeles Times.

Dubyagee 07-28-2013 06:44 PM

So now the whole judicial system is racist. Gotcha.

link 07-28-2013 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst (Post 3183438)
Perhaps, if we look at it through the narrow lens of race, without considering other issues that likely contribute.

Be that as it may, I think drug laws in general are wrongheaded and counterproductive. Incarceration does not improve the lives of the convicts or the community into which they will return, with their very own felony conviction to follow them the rest of their lives.

IMO, focusing strictly on the racial aspect is to stumble on a minor point rather than notice the precipice over which we have been, and are currently throwing, hundreds of thousands of people, perhaps millions.


…not my conversation but I wanted to point out for the gang that about 40% of the roughly 2.1 million people incarcerated in the US are black. That is primary evidence that indicates an overwhelming conviction rate bias.

Roughly 12.5% of the US population is black.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistics_of_incarcerated_African-American_males


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