Effects of decriminalizing drugs. - Page 12 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

kerry · #**166** 12-21-2013, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by link

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Larry agreed with one of my comments (above) that the effects of drug use may have negative influences on others. That may not suggest personal care but rather concern for the influence of one upon the other; so the evidence doesn't support your conclusion.

He has stated repeatedly that he likes to follow the (US) law, when the law agrees with his ideological views. iirc, he was in opposition to laws granting members of the lgbt community greater rights. I acknowledge your earlier point about so-called moral law (a slippery topic), and not necessarily US law, but the detail is, the views are not immutable, and that would suggest he doesn't agree with compulsory obedience in the literal sense. He may agree to degrees in the sense that serves his own values. If true, he would be like everyone else, right?

This is a kind of hair splitting. I could trace a line of logic that was first objectified by Schopenhauer, continued through Nietzsche, Freud, Adler and others, and most recently was expressed by Manslow in his (Manslow's) hierarchy of needs in the name of “Esteem.” This would agree in part, with a sense of allegiance to something greater (your patriarchal power), but more broadly the effect suggests only the desire to seek attention for self-serving goals.

Who knows, perhaps his dad believed in “correct” actions, whatever those were perceived to be, with punishment by way of a leather belt if one of his dad’s kids did live up to dad's perceptions. There are some who would act out all their life to avoid a sense of "the belt" after some experiences, i guess...

I dunno. You suggest he seeks power through attention seeking means, and i suggest he seeks attention for self-fulfillment. Anywho, without going into more boring detail, I guess you say potato….

BTW I do like the idea of the influence of perceived patriarchal power on one’s actions and goals, and acknowledge that does happen. Some never seek to draw their own conclusions but rather act out on handed down wisdom throughout life, but have not concluded that’s the case here. There is evidence to support that theory....

You could be right. It's an internet forum so the lack of face to face makes this kind of conjecture/speculation a lot more dicey. I don't think Larry is irrational. I think the world has changed in the last 30 years and patriarchal power is on the way out. Already gone in many quarters. These are very disturbing changes to lots of people. Lots of people express their dissatisfaction with those changes in 'moral' terms. I think Larry is one of them. Trying to engage in a rational discussion about those issues is pretty hard because most of the arguments which supported patriarchy don't have traction anymore. The only solution for those people dissatisfied with these changes is to be born again.

panZZer · #**167** 12-21-2013, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

You could be right. It's an internet forum so the lack of face to face makes this kind of conjecture/speculation a lot more dicey. I don't think Larry is irrational. I think the world has changed in the last 30 years and patriarchal power is on the way out. Already gone in many quarters. These are very disturbing changes to lots of people. Lots of people express their dissatisfaction with those changes in 'moral' terms. I think Larry is one of them. Trying to engage in a rational discussion about those issues is pretty hard because most of the arguments which supported patriarchy don't have traction anymore. The only solution for those people dissatisfied with these changes is to be born again.

lots of people are just waiting it out til they....... uh, never mind.

engatwork · #**168** 12-21-2013, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Would your feeling about that hold true if all of your children were girls?

Guess I should have clarified , At the time, if I were an American living over there yes but probably not anymore.

Botnst · #**169** 12-21-2013, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by link

Can you explain the difference between right and wrong?

If a law is changed, then does that change what is right and wrong or does that reflect that the law was wrong?

I'm interested in this due to my deep concern for all of te Roman Catholics doing eternity for meat on Friday before Vatican II.

cmbdiesel · #**170** 12-22-2013, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim B.

Your links ONLY refer to the alcohol/substance abuse problem in KSA.

They do NOT mention anything about the Judicial response, which was the content and point of my post.

Evidently that fact somehow eludes you.

You clearly stated, in the context of harsh judicial punishment being an effective deterrent to drug and alcohol abuse, -

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim B.

.....Alcohol and Drug problems are few due to the swift and harsh Judicial response.

The last report I read, some time ago, noted that in the previous year only SIX hands needed to be cut off in the KSA.

I say that is BS. And.. posted links to support my position that alcohol and drug problems in Saudia Arabia are not few, and that the harsh sentences do not curb the problem as you suggested.

Not sure why that eludes you.

Botnst · #**171** 12-22-2013, 09:30 AM

You gotta hand it to KSA on punishment.

davidmash · #**172** 12-22-2013, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

You gotta hand it to KSA on punishment.

You said 'gotta hand it'. lol

kerry · #**173** 12-22-2013, 10:57 AM

The Saudi system is interesting. I had a friend who taught English as a second language for a long time to Saudi males who came to the US. She noted that once they came to the US, they tended in two different directions. Some spent all their time in bars or strip clubs. The others spent all their time at the mosque. This is, I believer, because they lacked any personal moral center. All moral values in Saudi Arabia are externally imposed rather than internally generated. Once the external limits are removed they have no psycho/moral resources to direct their lives. I have also taught Ethics to large numbers of Saudi males and almost without exception they insist that no one would be moral if there were no god to threaten us with reward and punishment. (ie--the Saudi state). This is a clear example, in my view, of the social result of rooting morality in actual law. It produces a society of people who conform to the law to avoid punishment but lack any actual virtue. The are incapable of moral reason and personal moral motivation.

MTI · #**174** 12-22-2013, 11:03 AM

Still baffled by posts that seemingly promote a fundamentalist archaic and brutal system of punishment in a country that has a long history of distancing itself from that past. Ah, nostalgia.

elchivito · #**175** 12-22-2013, 11:09 AM

In the 70s I tended bar one summer at a Discotheque in Tempe that had become a favorite of Saudi and other ME students at ASU. These were all young people from prosperous ME families, presumably Muslim. At the risk of making a gross generalization, I have never in my life seen a worse bunch of drunks. I don't know how many times I used my muddler or mixing spoon to whack some drunk across the knuckles for reaching across the bar to try and adjust the amount of liquor I was putting in his Courvoisier and Coke.

MTI · #**176** 12-22-2013, 11:13 AM

Same experience in Hawaii resorts when there was an economic conference or meeting with Saudi representatives. Fisal family booked two floors of the Ihilani Resort, non-stop female escorts and partying. Hotel security told to look the other way. Of course, that was just the privileged and mighty, not the everyday citizens back home.

Hatterasguy · #**177** 12-22-2013, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

You could be right. It's an internet forum so the lack of face to face makes this kind of conjecture/speculation a lot more dicey. I don't think Larry is irrational. I think the world has changed in the last 30 years and patriarchal power is on the way out. Already gone in many quarters. These are very disturbing changes to lots of people. Lots of people express their dissatisfaction with those changes in 'moral' terms. I think Larry is one of them. Trying to engage in a rational discussion about those issues is pretty hard because most of the arguments which supported patriarchy don't have traction anymore. The only solution for those people dissatisfied with these changes is to be born again.

North Korea seems to be a great example of this.