Originally Posted by martureo

Only if you lump humans in with lower forms of life and base your conclusions on only a few studies.

Originally Posted by kerry

I'd say a few studies are far more reliable than the word of god.

Originally Posted by martureo

The point was that it wasn't a discovery that made the change it was politics.

And if you're arguing that religion forces such changes, then you're merely arguing against your above comment.

Originally Posted by davidmash

Says you. Everything I have read about it suggest the change was made because there was absolutely no evidence to suggest that it was a mental disorder.

Originally Posted by Jorn

Originally Posted by martureo

And yet pedophilia remains in the DSM as a "sexual orientation." (Soon to be removed language IIRC)



Well, consider this my last reply to you. I had forgotten who I disliked talking with.

Originally Posted by elchivito

I've always liked her. She plsses off everybody. There are a number of articles written from the "gay is a choice" perspective that love to quote her. What I'd like to see is what she has to say about many of those folks and their positions.

Originally Posted by Air&Road

Hmm.... maybe this explains what you're about. You like people who like to piss off everybody? Interesting virtue.

Originally Posted by Botnst

Now we're edging backwards into my favorite haunt -- nature vs nurture!

In my view, all eukaryotic life is hardwired for sexual reproduction. In mammals this is expressed as male and female (other phyla are often more 'creative').

But being wired for a certain form of reproduction does not mean we must perform in that fashion. We are not programmed like a machine. We are programmed like biological creatures, in which our programs are modifiable by circumstances and our own will.

For example, because one maybe hard-wired to be an alcoholic does not mean one therefore must engage in imbibing alcohol to excess.

The degree to which one deviates from cultural norms is a matter of choice as well as 'programming'. Culture is itself malleable. What is abhorrent today (adult males marrying pubescent girls, for example) was a commonplace a couple of generations ago. Slavery was once a normal institution of human culture in most of the world. Now it is considered immoral. Homosexuality has been considered normal in some cultures through history and later considered abnormal. Now we're edging back to believing homosexuality is normal.

I predict that within the present younger generation of breeders just coming on line, that their sexual attitudes will be even more liberal than our present-day liberals think is 'normal.'

Here's an example. In the early 1960's I saw some fliers produced by a "White Citizen's Council" (KKK was usually blue collar, WCC were usually white collar). The WCC flier argued that if we have fully integrated schools that our white girls will date negro boys. (OMG, the horror. Well, most people rejected that argument with "No way my Susie would ever stoop so low" and so they passively accepted integration (again, not the kluxer types). Well, as it turned out, the WCC was right! But now most of us believe this is a normal thing, a good thing. Race mixing makes it awful hard to hate your brownish grandchild as much as you hate his blackish father.

So I think the future nature of sex in our society is exactly what the most ardent conservatives claim -- a wild free-for-all in which consenting adults cohabit in ways that we have a difficult time imagining.

The question is (or should be): So what?

Originally Posted by Air&Road

Hmm.... maybe this explains what you're about. You like people who like to piss off everybody? Interesting virtue.

Originally Posted by elchivito

Changed my mind. Thanks very much for the compliment. It's rare, coming from you and ever so much more valuable.

Originally Posted by Jim B.

Back in 1963 I had a pen pal from Finland (still in touch with him even today!) who somehow had been given or obtained one of their fliers.

He sent me one of them.

It was "Don't buy negro records".

I couldn't believe it!

And with the flier, he asked me, "Are Americans REALLY like this?"

I was aghast, where did he get this?

So I wrote to the White Citizens Council and sure enough, they mailed me back about a dozen of those fliers.

It was really true. I was shocked, horrified and ashamed by my country. And sad that this was a view of all Americans seen by our overseas friends.


It was really true: Here is a full sized reproduction of the actual flier: (exactly as I saw it back in 1963

Dangerous Minds | ‘Don’t let your children buy or listen to Negro records’

NOTICE

STOP

Help save the youth of America

Don't buy negro records!


(If you don't want to serve negroes in your place of business, then don't have negro records on your jukebox and don't listen to negro record on the radio.)

The screaming, idiotic words and savage music of these records are undermining the moral values of our white youth in America.

Call the advertisers of the radio stations that play this type of music and complain to them!

Don't let your children buy, or listen to these negro records!

For additional copies of this circular, write to:

Citizens Council of Greater New Orleans, Inc.
509 Delta Building, New Orleans, Louisiana 70112
Permission is granted to reprint this circular..

Originally Posted by Jim B.

And with the flier, he asked me, "Are Americans REALLY like this?"

I was aghast, where did he get this?

I was shocked, horrified and ashamed by my country. And sad that this was a view of all Americans seen by our overseas friends.

Originally Posted by davidmash

Sarcasm?