Decided to Report A Likely Case Of Racism Today - Page 12 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

MTUpower · #**166** 07-02-2014, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

True but when the OP starts by barging in on a private party and there is no past evidence of prejudice, racial or any sort, it is hard to say there likely is little more than the OP getting snubbed for his rudeness while expecting his ass to be kissed because he MIGHT be interested in joining the party.

If I never played basketball with a bunch of people and showed up at the outside court and asked to play- not knowing the local rules of who does and does not get to play- and they told me that "No YOU can't play with us" and they meant it because I was Asian not black like them... would that be racism to you?

It does not matter if the OP "barged in" on a private party ... the person he barged in on could easily answer with a racist statement on why they are not welcome to join the party- and it would be racism. While we don't have the answers to our questions- this truth above still stands without regard to the future answers.

MTUpower · #**167** 07-02-2014, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jorn

And the white knight comes to the rescue...

'cuz certain races can't be discriminated against in your world, right? Racism is only bad when it happens to people I like- not to just anybody... I really hate racism in cases where the person being discriminated against is the same color as some of my past girlfriends, in cases where the person is well off and Asian? ... meh, it's not really racism; it's getting even.

HuskyMan · #**168** 07-02-2014, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim B.

Pretty good point.

My g/f has been utterly loyal to the Jaguar dealer's salesman that sold her her last two Jaguars; and had them exclusively serviced by this dealer, which is over 200 miles away, too!

.... but now she's looking for a new 2014 one, and has run into the exact same scenario as you have described, above, but this time with me in on the negotiations with them.

~~~~

Your analysis omits the fact that in ALL cases, when buying a new or used automobile, and I have bought a lot, especially from the new car dealers (Mercedes, BMW, Subaru, Ford Mercury, Volvo ect in the past 10 years alone), it goes like this.

You make your offer, on the new car and separately and a bit later, on your trade in, and your salesman takes in the offer to the Sales manager, who you almost NEVER even get to see, and then the salesman walks it in, and come back out 10-20 minutes later either smiling or downcast-looking, and your offer is either rejected, accepted or countered. The offers and counter offers back and forth can go on for hours, with the salesman being the foot soldier through it.

Though sometimes if negotiations utterly stalemate or bog down, and the deal is about to collapse the Sales Manager will come out with his "final and last" best offer. That happened to me several times.

This can take hours! Took me all day almost - literally - in at 10am, and out at 7:30 pm to get the deal "done" at the BMW dealer last year.

And it depends on MANY things under which *YOU* have no control: Is there a sales incentive going on, did they view you as sincere, and willing to really buy that day, what is the day of the week, the weather, (perfect day would be the last day of the month, with a quota to meet and the factory looking over their shoulder, it is closing time, and it is raining, and there is a factory to dealer incentive, the model you like is a slow seller, or the unit you are looking at is a unit that hasn't moved for months, and they would love to see it gone from the lot as the flooring costs are killing them) ect. Or maybe they will feel like just this time they can "blow one out" and make it up on the next schmuck ( err, customer) that comes in.

Plus it's a sliding scale too! They can overallow on your trade, but they will make it back by stiffening on lowering the MSRP (sticker).

Or if you demand to see the factory invoice, they will finally show it, and maybe even sell the car at near that of even LOWER if it's a slow selling model; but they will "rip your head off" on your trade in and give you virtually nothing for it, ("It's no good, (or) it's too old for us, we will have to send it to a wholesale dealer auction") or many thousands of $$$ less than dealer wholesale for it, where it will astonishingly rise resplendent a week later on their used car lot.

And in every case there is a 2% or so "dealer holdback" on every new car so sometimes they can let it go even under factory invoice and not lose money.

That is the end of Part I.

It starts all over again in Part II where even cash buyers have to go and see the finance manager.

These folks will often try and sell you every available extended service and warranty plan, interior paint and wheel and windshield and seat fabric protection plan under the sun, and god knows what else, and sometimes if you want to buy just ONE plan, they won't, --instead you have to buy a "bundled" plan that includes crap you don't want and likely will never use.

And these are negotiable, same as buying the actual car, though of course most folks don't know that. Varying from dealer to cite an example, a $3200 extended warranty can be negotiated down to $1,800 at a Mercedes-Benz dealer - where I live...

And the finance manager makes HUGE commissions selling that stuff, often times FAR higher than a competent salesman can ever make.

Whole thing is exhausting for an average buyer, and worse for uninformed people, females, especially, that want a good deal.

Most people hate it - and they have to do it every 5-10 years, but the car dealer does it every day all day long.

Advantage: dealer

~~~~

This time the deal fell apart last month ...

Looks like my g/f is going to have to wait till the '15 Jaguars come out and will wait till late fall to get her car spec'd out and order it then.

She will be facing the same conundrum as described above though.

Likes the salesman and the dealer and is a loyal customer, but there are plenty more in the San Francisco bay area - all of them would love the business and might even sell one at a greater discount than her "preferred" dealer.

Her decision though.

Scary stuff; when we go to the grocery store and purchase a can of soup, we casually walk to the cash register and check out. Perhaps all of ten minutes of our precious time is expended, whereas when making major purchases like cars and houses, well, that may take a LOT of our time and in the end are we ever REALLY sure we received a "good deal" or instead received "the screwing of our lives"????

Jorn · #**169** 07-02-2014, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTUpower

'cuz certain races can't be discriminated against in your world, right? Racism is only bad when it happens to people I like- not to just anybody... I really hate racism in cases where the person being discriminated against is the same color as some of my past girlfriends, in cases where the person is well off and Asian? ... meh, it's not really racism; it's getting even.

Your words. Racism is racism, just don't trust the OP on this and his track record on this board shows that.

aklim · #**170** 07-02-2014, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTUpower

If I never played basketball with a bunch of people and showed up at the outside court and asked to play- not knowing the local rules of who does and does not get to play- and they told me that "No YOU can't play with us" and they meant it because I was Asian not black like them... would that be racism to you?

It does not matter if the OP "barged in" on a private party ... the person he barged in on could easily answer with a racist statement on why they are not welcome to join the party- and it would be racism. While we don't have the answers to our questions- this truth above still stands without regard to the future answers.

If I could be sure that they meant it because I was Asian and not black, yes. But how to be sure? If not, I can't say it is racism.

aklim · #**171** 07-02-2014, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuskyMan

Scary stuff; when we go to the grocery store and purchase a can of soup, we casually walk to the cash register and check out. Perhaps all of ten minutes of our precious time is expended, whereas when making major purchases like cars and houses, well, that may take a LOT of our time and in the end are we ever REALLY sure we received a "good deal" or instead received "the screwing of our lives"????

Shop or risk being screwed. It is that simple.

MS Fowler · #**172** 07-02-2014, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuskyMan

Scary stuff; when we go to the grocery store and purchase a can of soup, we casually walk to the cash register and check out. Perhaps all of ten minutes of our precious time is expended, whereas when making major purchases like cars and houses, well, that may take a LOT of our time and in the end are we ever REALLY sure we received a "good deal" or instead received "the screwing of our lives"????

Let's see........
You. or your girlfriend might buy a car every 3 or 4 years. I haven't bought one in 11 years.
The car salesman probably works 15 deals a week of which maybe only half go through. When it comes to experience on buying cars where do you think the odds lie?
Arm yourself with as many facts as you can, and remember you can always walk away.

HuskyMan · #**173** 07-02-2014, 05:30 PM

I know someone who at one time was an ace car salesman. He averaged 15 deals a month; the stealership paid him a whopping $100 per car sold. And, as Jim B stated, each deal could take over eight hours to complete. Take $100 and divide by eight hours to close a deal and that comes to $12.50 per hour and that is not counting time prospecting for new customers. WOW, he might have enough at the end of the month to buy a loaf of bread.

MS Fowler · #**174** 07-02-2014, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuskyMan

I know someone who at one time was an ace car salesman. He averaged 15 deals a month; the stealership paid him a whopping $100 per car sold. And, as Jim B stated, each deal could take over eight hours to complete. Take $100 and divide by eight hours to close a deal and that comes to $12.50 per hour and that is not counting time prospecting for new customers. WOW, he might have enough at the end of the month to buy a loaf of bread.

I did it for 6 months. Every month I was #2 salesman; never the best, but consistently 2nd.
I made as little as $50 on some deals, but made up for it by selling enough cars that I got quantity bonuses.
I quit when a former associate in the Engineering field called and offered me a much better deal. The lying by EVERYONE in the dealership got to me. No one ever told the truth; I just couldn't deal with it.

The only cool thing was the next time I bought a car, the dealer was using exactly the same sales program-- scripted word-for-word. I would write down on a slip of paper and show my wife, " This is what he will say when he returns". She sat there with a very amused smile that I am sure bothered the salesman. But we got the car at my price.

Skid Row Joe · #**175** 07-02-2014, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTUpower

If I never played basketball with a bunch of people and showed up at the outside court and asked to play- not knowing the local rules of who does and does not get to play- and they told me that "No YOU can't play with us" and they meant it because I was Asian not black like them... would that be racism to you?

It does not matter if the OP "barged in" on a private party ... the person he barged in on could easily answer with a racist statement on why they are not welcome to join the party- and it would be racism. While we don't have the answers to our questions- this truth above still stands without regard to the future answers.

Excellent, and accurate points.

The example/scenario in paragraph (1) above fits.

INSIDIOUS · #**176** 07-02-2014, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe

Excellent, and accurate points.

The example/scenario in paragraph (1) above fits.

LOL

aklim · #**177** 07-02-2014, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe

Excellent, and accurate points.

The example/scenario in paragraph (1) above fits.

The example fits only if you are clairvoyant and can really read minds to know why the person said what they said.

cmac2012 · #**178** 07-02-2014, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTUpower

No one has to "get" racism to have it happen to them. A racist act is not dependent on the actual person's skin color or any one individuals level of previous racist interactions. Why would you think they are related? If the sales person rejected the OP because of his skin color it's racism, pure and simple. It's the only question at hand here.

That is a huge if, far more likely reasons have been discussed at length here.

The point being, the individual in question has rarely, if ever, been subjected to the king of racism that MLK and crew fought against. His jumping to 'this must be racism' derives, IMO, from ill will towards and mockery of those who do complain about racism. It does - the complaining - get out of hand sometimes but oh well.

I suspect he showed up at the door with a big grin like he was automatically entitled to be included. When he was not, he jumped at an easy and very likely false conclusion. IMHO.

cmac2012 · #**179** 07-02-2014, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P.C.

Decided to Report A Likely Case Of Narcissism Today...

HAH!

/thread

aklim · #**180** 07-03-2014, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

I suspect he showed up at the door with a big grin like he was automatically entitled to be included. When he was not, he jumped at an easy and very likely false conclusion. IMHO.

It's far easier to blame someone's prejudice for one's lack of success (for whatever reason) than to admit that they bear the burden for failure. I mean, if it is your fault for keeping me down, I'm free of blame even if it is my own stupidity that caused it. If it wasn't the jackass instructor that failed me, I'd have graduated, had a great job, good life, etc, etc. Much easier than me saying "I failed because I didn't study and partied my ass off every day.".